[60man]

Thanks again to Dick for test..It was his $$$ & time.
It's not a comparision to the whole world...just those two heads.
Still provided numbers to ponder...
Never the less...good info..

PTTFMF....no mater what head..

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by KO

8.42-Ron Rhoades-Tony Bischoff=9.42

????????????????????????

[LiL Jack]

I think he is trying to say without those two you are nothing. LOL

He forgot about Gaby tho...

Anyone can go there why is everyone else so slow?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Thanks guys for all the comments.

The question was raised: Why didn't we include other heads in our test, such as Tigers, Warp 6's, ProPorts, etc. The answer is threefold. First and foremost, we already had the wideport E heads. Second, the E head camp was the most vocal in their criticism of the CV-1, so it seemed a logical choice for a comparison test. Third is time and expense. This was not a gimme from Roland Racing. They supplied the heads, intake and valve covers. We supplied everything else, including shaft rockers, pushrods, lifters, gaskets, machine work and dyno time.

We went to great lengths to assure a level playing field. This included cutting .050 off the E heads and using a thicker head gasket with the CV-1's to equalize the compression ratio. After head gasket requirements were determined, ordered and mocked up, we could then measure for correct pushrod lengths for both sets of heads. The Victor intake was already ported as previously mentioned in my first post. The CV-1 intake ports had to be opened up to match the gaskets and the plenum area was opened up as well, so as not to give an advantage to the ported Victor. This was the early, low profile "fit under the hood" manifold. Obviously both manifolds also had to be cut to fit. Needless to say, we had a lot of hours invested in making this test. So if any of you want to step up with your motor and do multiple head testing - have at it.

The wideport E heads flowed 380+ cfm, not 350 or less. I don't think we would have seen 780 hp with a 350 cfm head. In fact, 780 hp is on the upper end of stock block power combos. And you can count on one hand the number of stock block combos making over 800 hp.

The pistons are .100 in the hole to give us a bigger nitrous tuning window. Thus the lower compression ratio (11:1) and loss of quench. Didn't seem to hurt. Interesting.

To answer a few questions, yes we used the same headers and cam. The oil pan and timing cover never came off. Also to clear up some confusion, the average torque and horsepower numbers were not an average from multiple pulls. They were the average over the test range from 5500 rpm to 7500 rpm on the best single pull. This is the rpm range that the motor will be working in. So when we saw increases of 23 ft. lbs. and 34 hp through this 2000 rpm span, we smiled.

We have wonderful choices for cylinder heads: Tigers, Warp6's, HP's, ProPorts, CV-1's RAV's E heads, etc. It's a good time for Pontiac enthusiasts.

Dick Fulton

... I just wanted to say thank you for your independent testing Mr.Fulton, I think at the very least the results are interesting and i really look forward to your track testing of this combo once your sprayin' , it should prove to be a lot of fun !!! ...

... but i felt it should be noted due to the request of a Tiger or Warp 6 top-end to be tested on your stock block combo, as those heads will not clear a stock block bore, which maybe some people are not aware of, i wasn't sure ...

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

LOL oh my let's not get that started I don't think I have anywhere close to that in my 2sets.Maybe if you added the third set which are my dads.


Back to topic I think Fulton did a great job on this whole deal and thanks again Dick.I was impressed with both of the test results.......I mean really stock block and all! That's awesome!

... now that's funny ...

... like it or not, this test of Dick's is completely relevant, and represents the gains possible for a WP E-Head user looking to change to a CV-1 top end, while i think this type of switch would most likely be a fully CNC'd set of CV-1's instead of unported ones, it was still nice to see the increases in HP & TQ on this combo going from the CNC'd WP's ...

... i think an even better test would be unported E-Heads to unported CV-1's, while the costs would be cheaper for the E-Head combo in that test, i think the power difference would more than justify the increase in cost, JMO ...

... which in my mind now raises the question, what unported cylinder head can make over 800hp on a stock block in pump gas trim ?? ...

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

A few wondering which casting...Seein no one else answered yet... to best of my knowledge the retool port hasnt been cast yet... wasnt too long ago the last set of original std castings were sold... not sure if there are any "porters casting" heads left...

I think the single 4 race manifold is scheduled for casting in about a month.

Best bet is to call Jim 417-209-7395 for answers to CV1 questions.

So there are no new CV-1 to be had?

I think this is about as good of a test as your going to get. Every test has its issues and results may very but it this isn't to bad of an apples to apples imo. Cudos to Dick for taking the time to do this.

I am curious how a set of standard port HP would have compared to the e-heads and cv-1.

[bankbook]

One can always look for fly sh*t in pepper to complain about.
If you are honest enough, their is not a bad thing to be said about this dyno run. It is an unbiased, true apples to apples comparison. Finally someone has taken up the courage and personal expense to do it.
it is good to see even if a few years to late
Hats off to Mr. Fulton for providing us with this test

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by KO

8.42-Ron Rhoades-Tony Bischoff=9.42

you got something to say????

Ron doesnt tune my car never has.. He sold me shocks and sold me cal trac bars and leaf springs.. guess I should have made my own shocks and bars and leafs??? My suspension is nothing trick anyone can see that.. I make it work..

The comp cams guys designed the cam in my n/a motor NOT Tony.
Gaby did the heads and intake NOT Tony.
Tony fixed my oil system problem when I was tearing up number 7 bearing.
Tony added compression to the motor with new pistons...

So maybe you should get your story straight before you run your mouth...

[v869tr6]

One plus I see with the CV1 is blowing or sucking there will be more intake gasket.

[KO]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

you got something to say????

Ron doesnt tune my car never has.. He sold me shocks and sold me cal trac bars and leaf springs.. guess I should have made my own shocks and bars and leafs??? My suspension is nothing trick anyone can see that.. I make it work..

The comp cams guys designed the cam in my n/a motor NOT Tony.
Gaby did the heads and intake NOT Tony.
Tony fixed my oil system problem when I was tearing up number 7 bearing.
Tony added compression to the motor with new pistons...

So maybe you should get your story straight before you run your mouth...

Sorry dude, wasnt trying to insult you. I was trying to point out its alot more than just heads. you bought shocks, springs and bars from Ron because, he used them, made them work and was a no brainer decision, your combination works because youve been sneaking up on it for years. I'm sure there is more to the pistons than just compression too. I Its all the little things that add up .001 at a time. I would bet if someone built an exact copy of your car part for part, they probably wouldnt even be able to get down the track.

[goatracer]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... now that's funny ...

... like it or not, this test of Dick's is completely relevant, and represents the gains possible for a WP E-Head user looking to change to a CV-1 top end, while i think this type of switch would most likely be a fully CNC'd set of CV-1's instead of unported ones, it was still nice to see the increases in HP & TQ on this combo going from the CNC'd WP's ...

... i think an even better test would be unported E-Heads to unported CV-1's, while the costs would be cheaper for the E-Head combo in that test, i think the power difference would more than justify the increase in cost, JMO ...

... which in my mind now raises the question, what unported cylinder head can make over 800hp on a stock block in pump gas trim ?? ...

I agree that badbird69's test was about as fair as you can reasonably make...WP vs CV1. But testing an "unported" e-head vs a CV1...then you'll have a 215cc/270cfm vs 280'ishcc/380cfm. Not as fair...

Bryan

[bad69bird]

Originally Posted by KO

Sorry dude, wasnt trying to insult you. I was trying to point out its alot more than just heads. you bought shocks, springs and bars from Ron because, he used them, made them work and was a no brainer decision, your combination works because youve been sneaking up on it for years. I'm sure there is more to the pistons than just compression too. I Its all the little things that add up .001 at a time. I would bet if someone built an exact copy of your car part for part, they probably wouldnt even be able to get down the track.

I would beg to differ Karl with regards to your first sentence.

You are right though, part of being fast is surrounding yourself with the right people and that's exactly what we do.

[Region Warrior]

Thought cantered valve would require different pistons.
Same piston do to larger cc's and/or short lift cam/rockers?

Seems anyone been mess'n with Pontiac's any length of time would be able to tell there's 3-4 better heads available then wide port E-hd's by look'n at them.
Can understand if it's NHRA rule, or $ issue.

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by KO

Sorry dude, wasnt trying to insult you. I was trying to point out its alot more than just heads. you bought shocks, springs and bars from Ron because, he used them, made them work and was a no brainer decision, your combination works because youve been sneaking up on it for years. I'm sure there is more to the pistons than just compression too. I Its all the little things that add up .001 at a time. I would bet if someone built an exact copy of your car part for part, they probably wouldnt even be able to get down the track.

ok but it looked different. I understand where you are coming from.

[adam woodmancy]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Good luck bracket racing.

What a dick thing to say.... Let me know when you're test and tune runs put money in your pocket... Cuz my bracket racing does...

[David Holmberg]

Originally Posted by Region Warrior

Thought cantered valve would require different pistons.
Same piston do to larger cc's and/or short lift cam/rockers?

Seems anyone been mess'n with Pontiac's any length of time would be able to tell there's 3-4 better heads available then wide port E-hd's by look'n at them.
Can understand if it's NHRA rule, or $ issue.

Yes, the E-head is a 20 yr old aluminum copy of a 40+ yr old head, nothing fancy at all. I would expect the Tigers and High Port heads to be better, they were designed to be. The CV1 has the added benefit of canted valves, anyone that has a basic understanding of airflow knows it should be a better head than the e-head.

The question was never about what it was capable of, but rather when someone was going to do it. It had become the "Danica" of Pontiac heads, lots of talk with little on track performance to back it up. Now with Mr. Fulton ready for track action that will change things up a bit.

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by adam woodmancy

What a dick thing to say.... Let me know when you're test and tune runs put money in your pocket... Cuz my bracket racing does...

DIDTHATJUSTHAPPEN

[adam woodmancy]

I'll tell ya what jack.. I'll buy a ticket out there, get in your car and lay down a pass just as quick as you do in your own car, then I'll buy you a ticket to come here, put you in my car, and lets see you cut something better than those 140 pro tree lights and see if you can figure out how to turn on an actual win light in a real race, not a time pass... Let me know what your schedule looks like... Then maybe I can come home and sit in front of my computer with a cape and a hard on and pretend like I'm something special too..

[Jeff Kinsler]

Originally Posted by adam woodmancy

I'll tell ya what jack.. I'll buy a ticket out there, get in your car and lay down a pass just as quick as you do in your own car, then I'll buy you a ticket to come here, put you in my car, and lets see you cut something better than those 140 pro tree lights and see if you can figure out how to turn on an actual win light in a real race, not a time pass... Let me know what your schedule looks like... Then maybe I can come home and sit in front of my computer with a cape and a hard on and pretend like I'm something special too..

THATHAPPENEDAGAIN.. I doubt it..



BTW this is the internet..... you dont have to read any of this..... Jack is fast and he can talk chit if he wants.

[David Holmberg]

IMHO, lil jack wasn't trying to insult bracket racers.

I'm with you Adam until you get into the full electronics bracket racing, then its more video game and less driver talent. Yes you gotta be good, but I'll take a good ole foot brake driver that knows how to work the pedal over a box any day. (for talent)