[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Lets see..

Kinsler E Headed NA....8.42 @ 3300#s

Me 7.94 @3460#s

Please tell me another cv1 car that has come close to either of these times at anywhere close to this weight.

And please don't make excuses about the East Coast air, it gets old.

Bump...


...LMAO... at that one...

[aaronman]

Dick - Thanks for taking the time to provide the best comparison test possible. Our Pontiac hobby is very small and this type of information is really helpful in advancing the science.

[BruceWilkie]

A few wondering which casting...Seein no one else answered yet... to best of my knowledge the retool port hasnt been cast yet... wasnt too long ago the last set of original std castings were sold... not sure if there are any "porters casting" heads left...

I think the single 4 race manifold is scheduled for casting in about a month.

Best bet is to call Jim 417-209-7395 for answers to CV1 questions.

[mjm421]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Lets see..

Kinsler E Headed NA....8.42 @ 3300#s

Me 7.94 @3460#s

Please tell me another cv1 car that has come close to either of these times at anywhere close to this weight.

And please don't make excuses about the East Coast air, it gets old.

Jeff's in a class by himself. But you, no.
Same day, same track, Roberts would have drug your ass down the track. FACT
Fulton will do the same. After JW, Fulton, and Marcella are done with you at Norwalk your azz will be as scrawny as mine.
As far as your east coast air bitch goes, thats simple to fix. RUN THE NUMBER SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by mjm421

Jeff's in a class by himself. But you, no.
Same day, same track, Roberts would have drug your ass down the track. FACT
Fulton will do the same. After JW, Fulton, and Marcella are done with you at Norwalk your azz will be as scrawny as mine.
As far as your east coast air bitch goes, thats simple to fix. RUN THE NUMBER SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

Dang mike...tell us how you really feel. Im a little confused as to what you are getting at with that post. LMFAO!

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... LMAO ...

holy crap! The dead have risen! He's alive! and has some positive results! where ya been? little dusty...been riding around with the top down?

[twinturrbo406]

Originally Posted by mike leech

holy crap! The dead have risen! He's alive! and has some positive results! where ya been? little dusty...been riding around with the top down?

... unfortunately Mike, I've just been tryin' to get back to being me, things have been a little tough lately, but thanks for asking ...

... i'm not dead yet ...

[R 70 Judge]

Cool test

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by mjm421

Jeff's in a class by himself. But you, no.
Same day, same track, Roberts would have drug your ass down the track. FACT
Fulton will do the same. After JW, Fulton, and Marcella are done with you at Norwalk your azz will be as scrawny as mine.
As far as your east coast air bitch goes, thats simple to fix. RUN THE NUMBER SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

I care to differ. Where is your hero Robin?

I went an 8.16 at Norwalk, better then your CV1 hero Robin.

We will find out about Fulton and Marcella and JW.

Good luck bracket racing.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... unfortunately Mike, I've just been tryin' to get back to being me, things have been a little tough lately, but thanks for asking ...

... i'm not dead yet ...

don't say yet. I know you had a rough spell and i was thinking of you. Chin up. Life deals us set backs, thats how we know what to do with the good times. Better days ahead.

[7T2]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Dang mike...tell us how you really feel. Im a little confused as to what you are getting at with that post. LMFAO!

its a cv-1 thing- you wouldnt understand
wear the cross for 4 years... maybe then

[BruceWilkie]

One other thing to keep in mind... The original goal with the cv1 was to have a head that STARTED at/slightly above same level as as the typical Butler "std" wideport in terms of flow(365-375 was typical wideport then) and equal or better power. At less cost.

The manifold porting cost is another point you have to port a victor or buy an intake set up for wide ports. You have to buy a cv1 intake, porting is optional. Pretty much a wash
Dick didnt have to use shaft rockers in this test he could have opted for stud type. The geometry is excellent and the stud bosses are stout. But if you are racin alot shafts are probably the prefered choice. Doubt any significant difference would be seen on the dyno. With wideports you have no choice but to run shaft rockers to accomodate the offset... and the geometry isnt pretty.
And comments about a bowl blend? SO who wants a valve job that isnt blended to the bowl?
Looking forward to in car testing...

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by 7T2

its a cv-1 thing- you wouldnt understand
wear the cross for 4 years... maybe then

That was sarcasm Jim. Mike and I speak the same language. Fluently.

But congrats to your program.

[65nss4spdGTO]

Originally Posted by mjm421

Jeff's in a class by himself. But you, no.
Same day, same track, Roberts would have drug your ass down the track. FACT
Fulton will do the same. After JW, Fulton, and Marcella are done with you at Norwalk your azz will be as scrawny as mine.
As far as your east coast air bitch goes, thats simple to fix. RUN THE NUMBER SOMEWHERE ELSE!!!

I just had to bump this as it made me laugh so hard....

Calvin Hill
Hill Performance
708-250-7420

[Badbird69]

Thanks guys for all the comments.

The question was raised: Why didn't we include other heads in our test, such as Tigers, Warp 6's, ProPorts, etc. The answer is threefold. First and foremost, we already had the wideport E heads. Second, the E head camp was the most vocal in their criticism of the CV-1, so it seemed a logical choice for a comparison test. Third is time and expense. This was not a gimme from Roland Racing. They supplied the heads, intake and valve covers. We supplied everything else, including shaft rockers, pushrods, lifters, gaskets, machine work and dyno time.

We went to great lengths to assure a level playing field. This included cutting .050 off the E heads and using a thicker head gasket with the CV-1's to equalize the compression ratio. After head gasket requirements were determined, ordered and mocked up, we could then measure for correct pushrod lengths for both sets of heads. The Victor intake was already ported as previously mentioned in my first post. The CV-1 intake ports had to be opened up to match the gaskets and the plenum area was opened up as well, so as not to give an advantage to the ported Victor. This was the early, low profile "fit under the hood" manifold. Obviously both manifolds also had to be cut to fit. Needless to say, we had a lot of hours invested in making this test. So if any of you want to step up with your motor and do multiple head testing - have at it.

The wideport E heads flowed 380+ cfm, not 350 or less. I don't think we would have seen 780 hp with a 350 cfm head. In fact, 780 hp is on the upper end of stock block power combos. And you can count on one hand the number of stock block combos making over 800 hp.

The pistons are .100 in the hole to give us a bigger nitrous tuning window. Thus the lower compression ratio (11:1) and loss of quench. Didn't seem to hurt. Interesting.

To answer a few questions, yes we used the same headers and cam. The oil pan and timing cover never came off. Also to clear up some confusion, the average torque and horsepower numbers were not an average from multiple pulls. They were the average over the test range from 5500 rpm to 7500 rpm on the best single pull. This is the rpm range that the motor will be working in. So when we saw increases of 23 ft. lbs. and 34 hp through this 2000 rpm span, we smiled.

We have wonderful choices for cylinder heads: Tigers, Warp6's, HP's, ProPorts, CV-1's RAV's E heads, etc. It's a good time for Pontiac enthusiasts.

Dick Fulton

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by WARPed

This is great news and shows the CV-1's are doing what they were designed for in the first place - a LESS EXPENSIVE topend/valvetrain to deliver at least as good e wide port power. One bonus using CV-1's would be you are at the starting point as far as porting goes while the wide ports are near there max & another they run cooler.
Good Job!!

Less expensive ONLY IF IT'S AS CAST!

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

Less expensive ONLY IF IT'S AS CAST!

I say that because I have never priced a ported set out right.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

I say that because I have never priced a ported set out right.

About 12k

[KO]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Lets see..

Kinsler E Headed NA....8.42 @ 3300#s

Me 7.94 @3460#s

Please tell me another cv1 car that has come close to either of these times at anywhere close to this weight.

And please don't make excuses about the East Coast air, it gets old.

8.42-Ron Rhoades-Tony Bischoff=9.42

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

About 12k

LOL oh my let's not get that started I don't think I have anywhere close to that in my 2sets.Maybe if you added the third set which are my dads.


Back to topic I think Fulton did a great job on this whole deal and thanks again Dick.I was impressed with both of the test results.......I mean really stock block and all! That's awesome!