[john marcella]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... LMAO !!!!!! ... now that is funniest chit i've seen on here !!!!!!! ... John, it has nothing to do with weight ... dont worry, it will all make since come Norwalk time ... you HOMO !!! ...

... and hey, stop touching ME !!!! ...

LOL, your the one with 4100lbs tank?
Hey by the way, dont take my cracks in the other thread towards you and Calvin, i think the both of you seem like decent people who care about what they do. That crap is for the underappreciated engineer.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by twinturrbo406

... LMAO !!!!!! ... now that is funniest chit i've seen on here !!!!!!! ... John, it has nothing to do with weight ... dont worry, it will all make since come Norwalk time ... you HOMO !!! ...

... and hey, stop touching ME !!!! ...

There are only 3 rules for the heads up class, 6.75lbs/cid, must be a Pontiac and be NA. If weight isnt the issue then which rule does it not fit? Not a pontiac or its not NA?

[bryansMtngto]

Originally Posted by john marcella

x2, it will become a class were you have to bring an ex pro stock or ADRL car or stay home. The class is fine the way it is. Give it time it will get bigger. Maybe it could stand to be a bit lighter but still its fine. Its easier to add weight than remove it.

think it needs to be tweakd. to 6.0 which would make 500 ci at 3000 lbs. to give guys with aftermarket blocks the option. why spend the $$$ on a smaller engine in todays times for that 1 race. Most Of the builds I know of with new blocks in my area all seem to be Power added combos. I know i was a Super class racer for years N/A. to make the HP i want N/A would cost me Roughly double or more the $$$ then going with an adder. If it stays at the 6.75 weight break I think it will stay about the same size IMO dont seem to see alot of guys staying small anymore. When you goto the local track and **** a 540 Chevy is pretty much a small motor it seems. Most guys i know want to go faster and lighter. I think when you start getting into low 8's high 7's with cars over 3000Lbs thats a lot of weight to stop, specially on tracks that have short or rough shutdown areas. I would Like to see more Power added class to make it worth wild for the drive east. The way it is now hate saying it. Not worth the cost in todays times.

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by slowbird

There are only 3 rules for the heads up class, 6.75lbs/cid, must be a Pontiac and be NA. If weight isnt the issue then which rule does it not fit? Not a pontiac or its not NA?

Edsel,I don't believe that was a specific model Pontiac made.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

Ok with all this talk about money being thrown towards a cv-1 guy to enter or if a cv-1 guy wins. Is that just talk or is that going to be like one of those deals where lil jack backed out of a race with The Mighty TA?sorry jack but the way I understand it you backed down pretty quick after Robin quote"layed down a number".
I mean is that legit someone will pay up IF a cv-1 guy shows up and wins? And still curious how much does it pay to win the heads up n/a deal at norwalk?and the total is that with or w/o the "extra" money thrown in?

My reputation will speak for itself. Who do you think had the first heads up match race at a Pontiac event? Anyone remember good ole Paul Rash. Those were the sh*t talking PY days. LOL.
Who do you think started the first Quick 8 at that time?

I have NEVER backed down from a fair race, never not paid what I said I would and I have never went back on my word.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kinsler

you running in it Ken??

535 cu.in. Do the math. I put on some weight............ but not that much. LOL.

[cosgrove]

Originally Posted by bryansMtngto

think it needs to be tweakd. to 6.0 which would make 500 ci at 3000 lbs. to give guys with aftermarket blocks the option. why spend the $$$ on a smaller engine in todays times for that 1 race. Most Of the builds I know of with new blocks in my area all seem to be Power added combos. I know i was a Super class racer for years N/A. to make the HP i want N/A would cost me Roughly double or more the $$$ then going with an adder. If it stays at the 6.75 weight break I think it will stay about the same size IMO dont seem to see alot of guys staying small anymore. When you goto the local track and **** a 540 Chevy is pretty much a small motor it seems. Most guys i know want to go faster and lighter. I think when you start getting into low 8's high 7's with cars over 3000Lbs thats a lot of weight to stop, specially on tracks that have short or rough shutdown areas. I would Like to see more Power added class to make it worth wild for the drive east. The way it is now hate saying it. Not worth the cost in todays times.

Well said. There are 8- 10 guys that like 6.75 because it fits their cars.Then justify it be saying it keeps gutted race cars out of the class. With that logic you could make it 8 lbs/cu in and open it up to anyone with a 400. Oh,the regular participants don't want to weigh 4000 lbs. See the point?
This seems like a pretty tight group so I don't suppose anything will change in this class. But there are better ways to do this. The true 10.5 class is very popular. It allows any engine combination. Factory dash , factory dash location and stock type suspension. No wheelie bars. No tire tread over 10.5 wide.No tubs. Seems to keep the true race cars out. Got room for another class Tom S? Or tweak that weight rule.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by DINO1

Which is why they have a hard time getting a full field of cars to run.
If you want to see a field of cars run some fast times and get the car count up , open it up a bit and let any CI to weight and tire size run N/A and see what happens.
Your not trying to run Fords, Chevys, Moprars together. The car count will go up, and so would the payout. It could be a whole class of it's own and may thin out the herd in the MOD class at the event. That class takes up more time to run then all the other classes put together. Heads up is real drag raceing. And the event needs a class that actually pays some money to win. Give racers some incintive to show up, you will be surprised who will come for a chance to win some real money.

I tried twice, then Brian, to get a chassis car heads up power adder deal going at Pontiac events. Too much whining and car count never took off. Just a bunch of excuses. So it disappeared.

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

My reputation will speak for itself. Who do you think had the first heads up match race at a Pontiac event? Anyone remember good ole Paul Rash. Those were the sh*t talking PY days. LOL.
Who do you think started the first Quick 8 at that time?

I have NEVER backed down from a fair race, never not paid what I said I would and I have never went back on my word.

Ok I stand corrected! I didn't realize that you were the one that started that stuff..it's really a good deal when ya get down it. Thanks I don't know if anyone has told ya that but if gives people that don't understand, or won't try, bracket racing something to watch.I was just trying to find a way to stir up more business for some of our pontiac vendors. But ya pretty much called me on it.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by bryansMtngto

think it needs to be tweakd. to 6.0 which would make 500 ci at 3000 lbs. to give guys with aftermarket blocks the option. why spend the $$$ on a smaller engine in todays times for that 1 race. Most Of the builds I know of with new blocks in my area all seem to be Power added combos. I know i was a Super class racer for years N/A. to make the HP i want N/A would cost me Roughly double or more the $$$ then going with an adder. If it stays at the 6.75 weight break I think it will stay about the same size IMO dont seem to see alot of guys staying small anymore. When you goto the local track and **** a 540 Chevy is pretty much a small motor it seems. Most guys i know want to go faster and lighter. I think when you start getting into low 8's high 7's with cars over 3000Lbs thats a lot of weight to stop, specially on tracks that have short or rough shutdown areas. I would Like to see more Power added class to make it worth wild for the drive east. The way it is now hate saying it. Not worth the cost in todays times.

Could not disagree more. No disrespect to you as you are entitled to your opinion. I know it seams there will be all kinds of cars. There won't be. There will be very few. The reason more people don't sign up isn't because there car is to light or there engine is too big...they can add weight and fit the rules. They don't sign up because if they add the weight they are TOO SLOW to complete. The point of the class is not to give all the unimpressive combos a chance to shine. THAT IS WHAT BRACKET RACING WAS INVENTED FOR.

[tom s]

Glen and Calvin are doing races with weight breaks and weight penalties for diff stuff.As long as I can afford to do it and Good Lord willing I will continue it.This will be the 4th year,way longer than most thought it would go.I believe we will have at least 12 cars this year.I think some of the NHRA SS cars fit in the class.Lynn brought one of their cars year before last and snaked some money away I believe.Tom

[David Holmberg]

I think it's a great class, and the rules protect the cars very well and make for great racing.

Is there room for a 6.00 / 5.75 class, sure. More and more 505/535 motors are being built and many of them are going in 3000 lb cars.

My hat is off to Tom, he actually put his wallet where his mouth is.

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

I think it's a great class, and the rules protect the cars very well and make for great racing.

Is there room for a 6.00 / 5.75 class, sure. More and more 505/535 motors are being built and many of them are going in 3000 lb cars.

My hat is off to Tom, he actually put his wallet where his mouth is.

X 2 Yes leave the class alone. It's there, build to it if ya wanna race N/A heads up at Norwalk, etc. Starting to sound like YB. LOL.

Then ya have to try and fit in another class and speak to Pete. It's his money, his event his show.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by S/st 54

Edsel,I don't believe that was a specific model Pontiac made.

Talk to Tom bet he'd let Bill run if it meant finally getting a cv1 into the class.

[cosgrove]

Originally Posted by mike leech

They don't sign up because if they add the weight they are TOO SLOW to complete. The point of the class is not to give all the unimpressive combos a chance to shine. THAT IS WHAT BRACKET RACING WAS INVENTED FOR.

Don't hide behind a rule put in to protect YOU. We have to add weight so you can compete.

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by cosgrove

Don't hide behind a rule put in to protect YOU. We have to add weight so you can compete.

How does that make any sense? If you can't compete at 6.75lbs with him then you wont be able to compete with him if he takes weight out either.

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by mike leech

Could not disagree more. No disrespect to you as you are entitled to your opinion. I know it seams there will be all kinds of cars. There won't be. There will be very few. The reason more people don't sign up isn't because there car is to light or there engine is too big...they can add weight and fit the rules. They don't sign up because if they add the weight they are TOO SLOW to complete. The point of the class is not to give all the unimpressive combos a chance to shine. THAT IS WHAT BRACKET RACING WAS INVENTED FOR.

Interesting... would YOU add 200-300 lbs(maybe more) to fit a class you dont normally run? For one race a year? Are you going to want to sort thru the changes to make it work for one race. Most wont. I suspect your car happens to fit close to the rules.

I suspect there are a bunch of cars at 3200-3500 lbs race weight. 474- 518 ci fits Toms rules in that weight range. Not many would take a stockblock at that ci to compete heads up at 6.75 lbs. Not many will take a IA2/MR1 down to 474ci. That leaves the 505 as a possibility as its fairly common... the next common IA2/MR1 is the 535. So now your looking at 3408-3611 (not uncommon for bracket racer weight). How many HEADS UP RACE cars WANT to be that heavy or add weight? The guy that takes his IA2/MR1 down to 474-482 ci 3200-3253 lbs has the best chance in Toms class, as the smaller motor WILL allow more HP per ci. And the guy who builds an even smaller CI combo and lighter weight will have the edge over them. Think a 4.28 bore and 4" stroke with the heads to support it wont make more HP per ci than a 535? Why do you think RAM has different weight to ci breaks?

As far as meeting Toms NA class rules... I got an old 53 Studebaker in the backyard... I could build a cv1 combo at a weight that fits the rules... probably be competitive... But being a Stude it dont fit Toms rules.

Bill's "Edsel" will be quite competitive and will showcase what the NA CV1 has going for it. Looks like it should be at a weight that isnt uncommon, it just doesnt fit all of Toms rules. Seein so many griped about his Tempest being too light and it wasnt likely to be done and sorted by Norwalk he has put the Tempest on hold and taken another approach... It will still showcase Cv1 Pontiac power and simply put in a car that others could build. I'll emphasize this car is NOT what Bill was looking for... but for the money and time available and lack of suitable available cars in his budget range its going to have to do for now... The car body has no advantage over a Pontiac...I expect controversy none the less...nothing new to the CV camp. He plans to be there.

In case your curious... current project is an 84 GP intended for true dual purpose and will have twin turbo's... Wont be done this year. Possibly beyond that. Debs currently out of work and family/home take priority ... When done though, it should be quite fast... but I'm upping the difficulty factor... I plan to DRIVE it to Norwalk AND make a few passes and DRIVE it home... thats about a 1200+ mile round trip... My 84GP has been a great car to drive anywhere and thats what I intend to keep as much as possible. The anemic sbc in it has to go. So... 400-428 ci stockblock (strong 59 block) and the turbos should allow the driveability/mpg for drivin and meet the power at safe rpms and go 9.0 or better at the track. Besides $, biggest obstacle is a rearend that can take the power without running a spool. Dana 60 and 35 spline locker might be enough... dont want to have to do a change at the track beyond tires and boost settings.

For now the Stude will be in "Rust Rod" status... but It sure could make a unique Pontiac powered dedicated race car. Low light and good aero. It wont fit one of Toms rules and I dont care.

[Jeff Kinsler]

what is the big deal to add 200 to 300 lbs? we took my buddies 68 camaro and went to georgia and ran the X275 race and then had to add 300 pounds to run the leaf spring race.. All we did was bolt the weight in and re adjust the anti-roll bar and caltrac bars.. not that hard to do!!!! we ran 2 classes all weekend!!! just make the weight bars up and bolt it in.. ITS NOT THAT HARD!!! everyone has to race the same rules!! Do you think I like carrying weight???? I can take ove 200 lbs out of my car just in weight bars and run alot faster. I have only tried one pass and the track was junk and I spun... so can i say my car would go 8.49 to 8.53 with the weight out? because it would of it it hooked up!!

[David Holmberg]

Bruce I love your idea.

http://www.yellowbullet.com/forum/sh...r+to+Bradenton

Great read for those of you that missed it before.

And the Readers Digest version.

http://www.dragzine.com/features/int...an-8-sec-stang

[cosgrove]

Originally Posted by slowbird

How does that make any sense? If you can't compete at 6.75lbs with him then you wont be able to compete with him if he takes weight out either.

Its not a matter of competing with the weight. The numbers are just wrong. Few other heads up races races require cars this heavy. It would make more sense to set a reasonable minimum weight, then let smaller motors take out a reasonable amount per cu. in. Cars running in the 8's weighing 3600 lbs is just silly. Figure out a way to let more combinations run. You wouldn't like 8 lbs / cu. in. Others might love it. Just because you like 6.75 for your combo doesn't make it the right number.