[Skip Fix]

"5 years now Edelbrock has offered much improvements to our competitors in the Chevy Ford Mopar products not us. They are NOT anti Pontiac, they are reluctant, they got slapped by us once, we bashed them when they gave us the RA4 type head we said we wanted and needed."

Because alot of folks think all you need is iron D ports and an 041 and you don't need any more! You know those big poor velocity heads won't make any HP or TQ.

I wish all you are into this endeavor all the best. The guy that made aluminum 409 heads just before Edelbrock came out with theirs and is working on a real aluminum block has run into the same thing as Lynn, and maybe from the same guys. The little guy gets pushed to the back of the list. He's had to switch casting pattern guys and machining places also.

[440GP69]

Erics Deal is far Beyond what I would need on the street and the Chamber Really suites Blown Nitro and Blown Alky better than NA IMO, I'd Love to see PMD's ultimate Head brought back updated and in Aluminum but Factory appearing on the Outside, It may Never happen due to all the Bickering But I'd be Willing to Bet It would Sell Very good, I understand there are obstacles in the way! All the Drama of getting us a 5 head has added to the mystique of it, Hopefully it happens someday and when it does I'll be there $ in hand all giddy to get a set!

[Elarson]

The billet tunnel port heads that we have designed should be terrible for a NA engine. Huge intake ports, big chambers and no water jackets.

I'm sure that a nice market would develop if a replica RA5 head was available. We flowed tested and reverse-engineered a V head. It was clear that it begged for a modern roller cam and either big cubes or big rpm....then it would really shine. Too bad that it got killed off before the other parts of the engine could catch up.

Eric

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by Ron H

Merry Christmas All.

Bruce, there is no doubt that what you are saying is true about people bashing products. Kinda beating a dead horse on this.

I am curious as to what Aftermarket Pontiac parts you have purchased.

I have purchased from at least 5 Pontiac vendors and try to before I go elsewhere.

I believe the volume of buying from Pontiac vendors and Manufacturers is higher now than ever. And it will continue to grow.

How about we point out the positives of the market and not contiune to bring up the bad?

Cheers

FWIW a 4" forged crank from AP back in the spring.(which I have since sold at no profit, to another Pontiac'r who needed it now) And bought my Scorpion rockers from Spotts for my Ford.

Had a certain famous vendor here called back as promised,replied to email as promised, and the last time I try to give him business, called them one more time, get someone else(not the famous owner) on the other end talking to me as if I knew nothing. The money for the Ford would have gone to my 84 GP. While waiting, the Ford fell in my lap, I decided to try the other side, and here I am, answering you questioning my loyalty. I'll finish it race it and probably sell it to get the GP to the level I want it. However if a few things I got going work out I may be able to build the Pontiac and keep the Ford(one of few I've ever owned, the first I've ever done anything serious with).

BTW Ames has received over $15k of my dollars for the wifes 69 convertible TA clone the past few years. So yeah Ron I do contribute $$ to the Pontiac community when I can.

The RA5 head is long overdue. I merely pointed out and reminded people what "bashing" has done to us in the Pontiac community and why we need to turn that around. It could have been here already!

[Ron H]

Bruce, I wasn't questioning your loyalty. Just asked what aftermarket Pontiac parts you have purchased. I really meant ones that have been designed and manufactured by our Pontiac vendors. But you need not answer.

I really wanted to state that though there was alot of bashing in the past, it has toned down alot lately. And it was mostly driven by another site and carried over here mostly towards one vendor.

This RA V head program set backs have nothing to do with bashing. I think the idea and desire has shown to be very positive. There is some Pontiac enthusiasts who would buy a V head but will not buy any of the heads currently available.

I think a V head would sell. But would it be practical? How many would be waiting to see performance results before purchasing? How many would buy just to have a set?
The poll numbers show that 36 would not buy them to 63 that would. And another 142 that more than likely would but they'd have to see the performance or the outcome first. The final 31 may buy them if available, but they doubt they will ever be.
Is sales of 200 sets heads worth the huge undertaking of designing and bringing them to market? What kind of projection can be made of how many sets would actually sell?

[Elarson]

Vic Edelbrock Jr. told us that he initially expected to only sell a hundred sets of his Pontiac heads. He thought that he was crazy to do them. We all know what happened.

The Pontiac performance coumunity seems to have a very strong "Build it and they will come" reaction.

Eric

[Tom Vaught]

That first hundred sets sold so fast I had my order in and had to wait for the "second run"

Tom Vaught

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I'll tell you up front I have no clue as to how much capital it takes. From the way Lynn has described the scenario however, it doesn't sound like he is waiting for other investors to get on board to pony up the total amount of cash needed to pay for the project in full. It sounds like Lynn has made a down payment to whomever has been contracted to do the job, and they are slow to even get the job going because of other customers with larger amounts of capital that can pay the full amount up front to get their jobs done. If this is not the case, I retract my statement.

Brian,

Start retracting. Not even close. In fact, the exact opposite is closer to the truth.

Lynn

[Brian Baker]

Originally Posted by NHRASuperStock455SD

Brian,

Start retracting. Not even close.

Lynn

I retract my statement. Perhaps in the future you could phrase it better? When you say you're getting put on the back burner for other customers with big money up front, it really does sound like you've already made a down payment to the contractor on the project.

[Ron H]

Either way. It's too bad that this hasn't gone forward.
I remember Brandi Kay saying she knew someone with a good chunk of money to invest. Maybe contact her to see if that would help?

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I retract my statement. Perhaps in the future you could phrase it better? When you say you're getting put on the back burner for other customers with big money up front, it really does sound like you've already made a down payment to the contractor on the project.

Yes we have, pretty significant one. However, when $100k cash shows up that dwarfs our project(ours is no where close to that). This has happened several times. 409 block, 440/426 block, small block Mopar to name a few.

All I am saying is that more money could keep him on our project, so this is why we wait. Here are some things we have accomplished:

*Testing of 3 inch square area hole verses a LS-1 same size hole on flow bench
*Testing of straight shot intake port with push rod verses angular port left or right
*Push Rod tube location
*Testing of RA-V style port with different valve angles
*Testing of different "raised port" designs on RA-V port
*Testing on different bore sizes
*Flow testing of final intake port with 2.40 valve
*CSA testing in transition from intake to pushrod area.
*Water jacket configuration
*Valve stem sizing
*Valve height determination
*Launch Valve Size evaluation
*optional materials evaluation including carbon graphite
*Optional Bore Spacing evaluation

Sorry for vague communication, however it is necessary until more progress is made. When bellies are shown too far ahead of time evisceration starts. I know this project is going to be slow coming, so I must be careful to temper expectation.

Lynn

[Brian Baker]

So then my assumption that a down payment was made and they're dragging their feet because of other customers with all of their money up front pushing you to the back burner was correct. I retract my retraction.

Hopefully with the downturn in the economy there won't be any more customers coming forth anytime soon to push you on the back burner again. Best of luck moving forward with the project.

[Skip Fix]

Yea there is an aluminum 409 block that a few have been cast to cut up going on. "Real" 409 not the BBC with a wedge plate like the World block.

[NHRASuperStock455SD]

Originally Posted by NHRASuperStock455SD

It sounds like Lynn has made a down payment to whomever has been contracted to do the job, and they are slow to even get the job going because of other customers with larger amounts of capital that can pay the full amount up front to get their jobs done.Lynn

Brian,

This is the part to retract spinning the thrust of your point. However, I do not wish to reveal the details of my contract at this time. Also, I cannot pay investors back unless they are willing to become a dealer out of loyalty to the people who have already paid into the project.

Lynn

[uneasyrider]

I haven't kept up with this at all so please forgive me if this has been asked but why can't Edelbrock just cast an exact duplicate of the original head in Al and then let the customer port them if needed and/or when they show they sell then make a better version. From what I understand of the RAV (and I know very little) 90% of the people that would like to buy a set wouldn't need to do anything but bolt them on and maybe open up the exhaust side?

P.S. Did the original RAV heads have sodium cooled exhaust valves?

[tom s]

Vs take a diff cam and the pistons have to be changed in their holes.Yes,factory Vs had sodium filled exhaust valves.Not a bolt on deal.Tom

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by uneasyrider

I haven't kept up with this at all so please forgive me if this has been asked but why can't Edelbrock just cast an exact duplicate of the original head in Al and then let the customer port them if needed and/or when they show they sell then make a better version. From what I understand of the RAV (and I know very little) 90% of the people that would like to buy a set wouldn't need to do anything but bolt them on and maybe open up the exhaust side?

P.S. Did the original RAV heads have sodium cooled exhaust valves?

There have been behind-the-scenes discussions of this exact idea. Perhaps if everyone would call Edelbrock and say...... "Thanks for all of your Pontiac products and BTW, I'd be willing to spend $$ for RA-V duplicates"....then it might raise the odds.

JMHO,
Eric

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by tom s

Vs take a diff cam and the pistons have to be changed in their holes.Yes,factory Vs had sodium filled exhaust valves.Not a bolt on deal.Tom

I realize that but I'm just talking about the heads. The "hard cores" can get the rest accomplished and I will admit that it will be expensive but custom cams have been cut in the past for RAV’s and can be done again it’s not Edelbrock’s problem to worry about that if you see what I mean? Hell, there are guys out there taking old 1950’s Pontiac blocks and dovetailing in heavy duty main caps to build nostalgia nitromethane engines and that’s way out of the ball park for the average Pontiac fanatic so I would think that RAV heads wouldn’t be a great stretch for the harder core hot rodders on here if you see what I’m getting at? As far a the Na exhaust valves goes that was just a question to confirm what I had remembered. As they found they didn’t work well in real life and there is no reason to go to the trouble on Edelbrock’s side for anything like that. The customer can do that if they want it.

I know I can’t say for sure that I would rush out and buy a set tomorrow if they made them available but it is something that I think if it were available people like me would think of ways to use them. I personally would like to have a stock set for a 400 based “SCCA TA” type engine for the street and run it on E85. I wouldn’t have to do a thing to them for what I wanted to do. I don’t want “massive” hp numbers from it I just want something different and some rpm’s... and a beer and to see something naked...

Originally Posted by Elarson

There have been behind-the-scenes discussions of this exact idea. Perhaps if everyone would call Edelbrock and say...... "Thanks for all of your Pontiac products and BTW, I'd be willing to spend $$ for RA-V duplicates"....then it might raise the odds.



JMHO,

Eric

I don't disagree but I do know they have sold enough Pontiac heads to prove already the investment was worth it.

[Elarson]

Edelbrock is convinced that they can sell Pontiac heads if they are an affordable, easy bolt-on part. What they are not sure of, is how many people would buy a head that requires custom cam, different intake and custom headers. They understand that these are easy fixes for hardcore racers, but it takes a leap of faith to guess how many of the "moderate performance" crowd would be willing to spend the $$.

My own personal opinion is kind of "build it and they will come". But I understand their cautious approach. If Lynn can get his heads to market, then the whole Edelbrock discussion is moot.

Eric

[uneasyrider]

Originally Posted by Elarson

Edelbrock is convinced that they can sell Pontiac heads if they are an affordable, easy bolt-on part. What they are not sure of, is how many people would buy a head that requires custom cam, different intake and custom headers. They understand that these are easy fixes for hardcore racers, but it takes a leap of faith to guess how many of the "moderate performance" crowd would be willing to spend the $$.

My own personal opinion is kind of "build it and they will come". But I understand their cautious approach. If Lynn can get his heads to market, then the whole Edelbrock discussion is moot.

Eric

I agree, I think someone like Kauffman would have to do it as a gamble on getting ahead of the curve because Edelbrock won't take the risk on the "Build it and they will come..." theory and for sound business reasons especially in this economy and I can't blame them. I think it would have to be done by a small group of volunteers that just wanted to see it happen.