[pontiacry]

I have a 65 3 speed 4 bolt side cover with smooth tail housing an would like to put oem gto shifter and linkage on it to convert to floor.I would like to know if anyone has done this or knows of a way to do this without changing tail housing if possible.Thanks for any help on this.

[Goatracer1]

Many years ago my car had one. If I remember correctly the mounting bracket used the trans case to tail housing bolts to mount the front and a big "U" bolt around the tail housing to mount the rear. The shifter then mounted to the bracket.

[chrisp]

Originally Posted by Goatracer1

Many years ago my car had one. If I remember correctly the mounting bracket used the trans case to tail housing bolts to mount the front and a big "U" bolt around the tail housing to mount the rear. The shifter then mounted to the bracket.

That is what i have seen as well .

[pontiacry]

Originally Posted by Goatracer1

Many years ago my car had one. If I remember correctly the mounting bracket used the trans case to tail housing bolts to mount the front and a big "U" bolt around the tail housing to mount the rear. The shifter then mounted to the bracket.

Thank you, and that is exactly what i am looking for. Do you or any one else have one and/ or have picture of. the indy hurst that was on it mounted the shifter too far from the tail housing which put the shifter totally out of synch with the floor pan proper location. I would like to use the 65 hurst round stick shifter as my first option. I would buy the whole assembly if someone has this item.

[chrisp]

Hurst Shifters 3670010 Shifter Installation Kit

[chrisp]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/66-PONTIAC-G...d42842&vxp=mtr

[Skip Fix]

My 65 GTO 3 speed came with a Hurst and bolted straight to the tranny with an adapter plate like their 4 speed shifters.

[Peter Serio]

In order for the stick to be in the proper location in the floorpan and to use the original Hurst factory 3 speed shifter you need this version of the transmission. There is no plate or adapter that I know of to fit a tailshaft housing on a transmission (and have it fit the car).

In order to mount the original Hurst shifter with the welded round chrome stick the tailhousing has to have the built-in provision for the mounting plate.

In addition to the transmission you will need the GM mounting plate and the stock shifter with the linkage. Hurst used to make an aftermarket linkage set-up for that 3 speed. I think I have one of those kits here.

[John V.]

Is this the original trans in your Tempest?

You can also look in the '65 Tempest Shop Manual, assuming it includes the same illustration as in the '64 Tempest Shop Manual. Shows the details of the mounting for the factory floor shifter.

The Tempest/Tempest Custom had a bench seat, so there was a specific shifter used to clear the bench. Lemans had buckets so it was bent differently.

If you can't find all the original factory parts, you might find something that would work here.

http://www.carid.com/images/hurst/sh...rs-catalog.pdf

See pg. 35 for trans ID.

I don't see anything offered that mates to the Chevy trans with the 4 bolt side cover.

But I figure Hurst will know if they have something to adapt a 3 spd floor shifter to that trans.

I kinda doubt the '66 floor shifter on ebay would mate properly to your style trans.

To be honest, I didn't realize Pontiac was using the trans with the 4 bolt cover in '64/'65.

And I see some people claim it is a Saginaw, others claim it is a Muncie, some just say Chevy (which I think is dubious, both Saginaw and Muncie were Chevy owned, I figure one of them was responsible for the design and assembly of this trans. The trans assembly date code starts with an S, some claim that means Saginaw.

Anyone know which company designed/built this trans for sure?

Was this 3 spd only used in the '64/'65 6 cyl Tempest or did the 326 and GTO get the same basic design trans?

[Zimtok]

Not all transmissions have a place to bolt on the shifter.
This is the bracket he needs to bolt to the trans so he has a place to bolt the shifter.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Hurst/530/367-0010/10002/-1


.

[John V.]

That might be so, but not sure that kit will work with the earlier trans that he indicated he has.

The kit is for the '66 up Saginaw by my understanding.

If he has the original '65 Tempest 3 spd, it should have the lugs to bolt up the factory support and floor shifter since that was an option. AFAIK, same trans used with the base column shifter and the optional floor shifter.

The 4 bolt side cover is the tip off that this is NOT a '66 up Saginaw.

I simply don't know if that same kit works with the earlier 3 spd. That's why I suggested he talk to Hurst directly. Are you sure it does or making an assumption? I'm interested in learning more about it.

[pontiacry]

THANKS for all the great response. The car is a tempest custom ,bench seat, 326 2bl . The trans is original to the car and the numbers are: main case gm13 3854728-a195,tail housing 3855722-a205, side cover 3849534. I had thought that this trans was only 64,65 cars with 3 on the tree, bench seat which required no boss on tail housing. The 64,65 3 speed on floor would require that boss for shifter plate. I too have been told that this trans. is a cast iron saginaw. That kit for the mastershift ,i was told, would not fit the 64,65 4 bolt side cover trans.
Please inform me if i am wrong on any of this information. I would consider a gto 3 speed trans or tail housing if they interchange as a last resort. Thanks again for interest shown on this issue.

[Jeff Hamlin]

If it does come to that and if they are of interest,
I have 2 3spds 1-'67 & '69 that I would sell the tails off of.

I think I have the stamped steel shifter mounting plate as well.
LMK
If I can help further.

[John V.]

I think I understand what went on.

In '64, I think ALL Tempest 3 spds got the 3855710 rear extension case (tailshaft).

This one has the bosses for mounting the floor shifter at the back end of the case.

In '65, it looks like they only used this case when the floor shifter was specified (such as with the GTO). With column shift, they used a trans with the 3855722 rear extension case, no bosses provided for the shifter support plate. With floor shift, they used a trans with the 3855710, same as in '64.

Not positive that all '64 3 spds used the same rear extension case, but it looks like what you want to find is a 3855710 rear extension case.

I could be wrong about all of the '64 Tempest 3 spds using this extension case. But either way, that is the one you want. All the better if you can find one with the original shifter and support plate still attached to it.

[Peter Serio]

The 4 bolt cast iron transmission was last used in 1965 Full and mid size Chevrolets. It was first introduced in 1955 in Chevrolet cars. It is a fairly primitive transmission in that 1st gear was never synchronized. So you have to come to a complete stop in order to get the shifter into first gear. The 4 bolt side cover cast iron box was the standard manual transmission in many Chevrolet cars (55-65) and other GM divisions borrowed it as well. There also exists and overdrive variant of this transmission. The standard transmission that replaced it in 1966 was made by Saginaw and all forward speeds were fully synchronized. The "new" '66 Saginaw trans is completely different from the '65 Chev version and no parts are interchangeable; including the shifter. In mid year '65 Pontiac decided to offer a Ford toploader cast iron 3 speed transmission in the GTO and full size cars as an extra cost heavy duty option-w/floor shift.

[pontiacry]

Originally Posted by Jeff Hamlin

If it does come to that and if they are of interest,
I have 2 3spds 1-'67 & '69 that I would sell the tails off of.

I think I have the stamped steel shifter mounting plate as well.
LMK
If I can help further.

Thanks Jeff for those pictures and the offer. I do not think( could be wrong) that 66 and up had the 7 bolt side cover and the tail housings would not be an exact swap. I would think that i would need that extension housing for the 65 gto 3 speed. I would like to know for sure.

[pontiacry]

Originally Posted by John V.

I think I understand what went on.

In '64, I think ALL Tempest 3 spds got the 3855710 rear extension case (tailshaft).

This one has the bosses for mounting the floor shifter at the back end of the case.

In '65, it looks like they only used this case when the floor shifter was specified (such as with the GTO). With column shift, they used a trans with the 3855722 rear extension case, no bosses provided for the shifter support plate. With floor shift, they used a trans with the 3855710, same as in '64.

Not positive that all '64 3 spds used the same rear extension case, but it looks like what you want to find is a 3855710 rear extension case.

I could be wrong about all of the '64 Tempest 3 spds using this extension case. But either way, that is the one you want. All the better if you can find one with the original shifter and support plate still attached to it.

John, i think that you could in deed be correct on your assumptions. I would be interested in such a tail housing if i can not find any linkage to fit mine. What is your take on those 66 and up tail housings that Jeff has? Thanks for the help.

[pontiacry]

Originally Posted by Peter Serio

The 4 bolt cast iron transmission was last used in 1965 Full and mid size Chevrolets. It was first introduced in 1955 in Chevrolet cars. It is a fairly primitive transmission in that 1st gear was never synchronized. So you have to come to a complete stop in order to get the shifter into first gear. The 4 bolt side cover cast iron box was the standard manual transmission in many Chevrolet cars (55-65) and other GM divisions borrowed it as well. There also exists and overdrive variant of this transmission. The standard transmission that replaced it in 1966 was made by Saginaw and all forward speeds were fully synchronized. The "new" '66 Saginaw trans is completely different from the '65 Chev version and no parts are interchangeable; including the shifter. In mid year '65 Pontiac decided to offer a Ford toploader cast iron 3 speed transmission in the GTO and full size cars as an extra cost heavy duty option-w/floor shift.

Thanks Peter for that information. I also believe that the 66 and up are not an option for me. That 3855710 tail housing and or gto trans with the early 3 speed or that top loader( which i forgot about) would be my best bet. Does any one out there have a good one of these and may be the linkage also. I have to say that this forum is great on feed back to try to help people out.

[John V.]

Peter, one comment about the Dearborn 3 spd. Pontiac first introduced it in mid-'64 as the HD option for the big Pontiacs.

A year later, in mid '65, they intro'd it for the Tempest also as the HD option.

However, the Rear Extension Case was different for the Tempest application, I believe the Tempest version was shorter.

So pontiacry, if you go for the Dearborn, you want to be sure it is the Tempest version.

I think Peter answered the question about using the '66 up Saginaw Rear Extension on the '65 trans, no interchangeable parts between the two.

I still kick myself because I literally threw away the original 3 spd trans in the '64 GTO convert I bought in '73 when I swapped to a 4 spd. Gave up the car in '79, another sad story. All I have left of the 3 spd is the worn shift knob.

The floor shifted 3 spd was the base trans in the '64 & '65 GTOs but they were not very common as most opted for the 4 spd. Or swapped them for one like I did. The non-synchro 1st gear made it a lot less fun.

The '65 and earlier Corvette also used the same basic floor shifted 3 spd, also not real common in them.

But that probably makes the 3855710 extension case pricier than it would otherwise be since the Corvette guys need them too.

Don't know where to locate what you need, but you should probably google vintage transmissions and start calling around.

Place a want ad here too.

[War eagle]

Originally Posted by John V.

I think I understand what went on.

In '64, I think ALL Tempest 3 spds got the 3855710 rear extension case (tailshaft).

This one has the bosses for mounting the floor shifter at the back end of the case.

In '65, it looks like they only used this case when the floor shifter was specified (such as with the GTO). With column shift, they used a trans with the 3855722 rear extension case, no bosses provided for the shifter support plate. With floor shift, they used a trans with the 3855710, same as in '64.

Not positive that all '64 3 spds used the same rear extension case, but it looks like what you want to find is a 3855710 rear extension case.

I could be wrong about all of the '64 Tempest 3 spds using this extension case. But either way, that is the one you want. All the better if you can find one with the original shifter and support plate still attached to it.

Actually I do not think ALL 64 3sp std shift Tempest cars received the trans with the extension to accept a floor shifter. I have 3 cars that all have the column shifted 3sp and one with a 6cyl. No provision for shifter. John I think what you see in the parts cat is a Service Replacement trans, which covers all of the variables for 1964. If you page over to 4.317 extension, there are two available options-----one with console, one without. Obviously provision with and without floor shifter. I just didn`t want someone searching out a Tempest, only to find no shifter attach bosses.

I would have to crawl under one of the cars BUT I think the column shifted trans is stamped on its side DA in yellow. The floor shifted trans (I think) is stamped DB. I may have that turned around or thinking of something else.