[steve25]

They did develope a twin Cam Hemi head in late 62 and then a 427 in 69 or 70 , but it was too late in the game by then, and then as always at GM even with there across the board ban on racing in early 63 Chevy got there way!

[starlightblack]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

The HEMI is a single-fo due to the rules at the time..original as possible but lacks carb & Shift handle.

Would look great in my 68 GTO while fixing my rear main leak.

Does the trans come with it? You take a big hit without the carbs. I've owned a couple Hemis - paid 20K for a complete 1970 426 Hemi engine. What I see there is 10-12K easy. The small bracketry and accessory components are what adds up on a Hemi - it's unique.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by steve25

Face it, just the simple basic fact that there are more people into Mopars then Pontiacs makes any hp car or parts off a hp motor more valuable!

Since there are many more Mopar fans than Pontiac, and the "Hemi" Legacy continues to grow through new production, it just makes sense that more Mopar individuals would have more money to spend. One case in point. Had an engine go through the shop. An original Dodge Dart SS hemi engine. Block was windowed at the bottom where 2 rods had exited. Block was also broken in the bellhousing area near the starter mount. It was .060" over already. The owner wanted it stitched back together and 8 sleeves installed. Cost over $6000.00 in machining costs to get the short block back into proper condition, but that is what he wanted. As mentioned, he could have bought a NEW hemi block for much less and had a much better engine. Similar to someone who just has to have a genuine SD-455 vs one of the superior aftermarket offerings. Car people know what they want, and often money is no object.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

The HEMI is a single-fo due to the rules at the time..original as possible but lacks carb & Shift handle.

Would look great in my 68 GTO while fixing my rear main leak.

It would require more work to adapt a hemi into the A body than it would to replace the main seal in your current engine. Also, changes to adapt it would lower the value of the Pontiac.

The engine pictured more than likely came out of a NASCAR race car, NASCAR had limited the cars to one four barrel by the late 60s.

In my dealings with,hemi is running on the street they do not make a wonderful engine because they power band is not down low where a street car is most of the time. Even though Chrysler detuned their "Street Hemi" from a race engine it did not entirely become a terror of the streets. If not kept in top tune, they can be unimpressive in a street car, lots of maintenance to keep them putting out impressive power.

My Vo Tech had a chassis dyno in the classroom and one of the students daddy bought him a 66 satellite with a street hemi in it. On the chassis dyno it had around 220 RWHP, disappointing to the owner tremendously...…….

We also had a student in the program that owned a 66 coronet, he was a mopar fan, his ran well, but he had to keep fussing with it to keep it running well. His also had 4.10 gears and a 4 speed, where the satellite had an automatic with I believe 3.55 axle. Just having a hemi between the frame rails doesn't insure you're going to beateverything on the street, it has to be at it's optimum to show it's superior engineering...……….

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by steve25

They did develope a twin Cam Hemi head in late 62 and then a 427 in 69 or 70 , but it was too late in the game by then, and then as always at GM even with there across the board ban on racing in early 63 Chevy got there way!

And how many went into production?

[Poncho60]

My college roommate beat a hemi one night with his great running 66 442 wo too much problem.

[avman]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

Agreed 1000%

I can appreciate the legendary original 426 Hemi engine. Too bad they were installed in some ugly, cheap ass cars. I equate this to installing the original 12V Cummins diesel in the Ram trucks. It was a Legendary engine in a crap package.

Ugly?
Maybe when I was a teenager, I would say things like that about anything that wasn't a MOPAR.
As a matter of fact, I really enjoyed destroying the 78 and 79 Trans Ams that other kids were getting brand new, with my old, "ugly" 71 Charger R/T....
My wife has a 65 GTO and it's a great car, and I sacrifice a lot for it, and to make it better.
But my 440 6bbl Roadrunner is my favorite.
And for the most part, I don't say **** like "late 70s Trans Ams are plastic laden slow pieces of crap" with a screaming chicken on the hood...

[Chief of the 60's]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

Agreed 1000%

I can appreciate the legendary original 426 Hemi engine. Too bad they were installed in some ugly, cheap ass cars. I equate this to installing the original 12V Cummins diesel in the Ram trucks. It was a Legendary engine in a crap package.

Pretty funny how they cover up those spark plug wires and re-badge that "HEMI" as if it were a GM product. But you are right, those Hemis end up in some ugly cheap ass cars.

[avman]

Here's our 2 classic cars.
The "ugly one" must be my Roadrunner...
By the way, the SD 455 was the best engine in the fading years of the Muscle Car era. Still it suffered from lower compression than what it needed to make the power it could have, and the cam wasn't the greatest either. Still, both fixable with replacement parts. There was never a "post pinnacle" Gen 2 HEMI. 1971 was the last year, and although they switched from solid lifters to hydraulic in 1968 IIRC, the 426 street Hemi had the same output rating all the way through its production. The most legendary engine of the ENTIRE muscle car era: the 426 Hemi, and likely would cost more vs a SD 455.
If the OP knew the history of the one he has, it could significantly increase its value. It looks like a NASCAR Hemi!

[TheGrudge]

Mopars rattle, Ford panels don’t line up. Does that mean you would rather a Prius than a Max Wedge or a Thunderbolt? Sure, I have my preferences, but I gotta say I love them all. The era of great design, engineering etc that we all hold so dear would never have been so legendary without the variety and competition that spawned it.
My friends are all Mopar guys. I dig them for what they are. (and their cars!!!)

[PAUL K]

I just did a quick Google search and found out the Hemi combustion chamber wasn't invented by Mopar...Google had no idea if Hemi engine parts cost more than Super Duty parts....which I thought was the premise of this thread...

Not sure if I'd boast about beating a 78 or 79 Trans Am with a 71 anything....but more than likely you'd be seeing taillights if it wasn't on a straight track.

Also not sure what a picture of a modern day Funny car has to do with this thread...but it is a cool picture.

[John Milner]

I own a '68 Charger 440 4 speed along with several 60's and 70's GTO's and a 68 396 Chevelle mixed in. I think a B body 68-70 Mopar is a great looking and with the right engine, a fast car. Their engines were built with good parts. Forged rods and forged crankshafts in the higher horse cars. They also have stout transmissions and rear ends. However, I agree that Mopars of that era were cheaply made. Everything about the way a GM A body is built is better in my opinion. The suspension, frame (or with Mopars, a lack of a frame), and especially the wiring are better. I don't know how many Mopars that I have seen over the years with a burned up Amp gauge. I don't know what it is about them but the sheet metal seem to be prone to rust problems, too. Moreso than Pontiacs, that's for sure. Having said that, I'll have a 68-70 B body Mopar in my garage sitting next to my Pontiacs any day of the week.

[Sirrotica]

The cylinder head is the key to the hemi power over other designs. If you don't believe it, it was proven in 1962 when M/T won the nationals with a hemi headed Pontiac over Chryslers own designed hemi.

Ford had their twisted hemi that also was a race engine first and foremost.

The key to the hemi success is the ability to outflow most any other design, it shines in a forced induction arena. To get the utmost out of a hemi in a N/A application it has to be running at high RPM to get into the band where it can outflow other designs and maximize it's attributes. This is exactly why the "Street Hemi" wasn't as fast as all the stories still circulating about it. One of the other downfalls was it's shear size, it took a lot of real estate to get all the valvetrain needed to actuate the valves.

I remember once years ago when the traveling late model stock cars came to our local track, one of the cars had a 426 hemi in it. I didn't see the engine compartment with the hood off, but looking through the fender you could see they had to make the roll cage along the top of the frame much wider to accommodate the shear width of the engine. The car it was in ran well, but it never got into the top 5 in the feature.

Besides being really wide, the all cast iron versions are really heavy.

They have their place in hot rod history, but they also have some shortcomings.

[77 Canamman]

Originally Posted by avman

Ugly?
Maybe when I was a teenager, I would say things like that about anything that wasn't a MOPAR.
As a matter of fact, I really enjoyed destroying the 78 and 79 Trans Ams that other kids were getting brand new, with my old, "ugly" 71 Charger R/T....
My wife has a 65 GTO and it's a great car, and I sacrifice a lot for it, and to make it better.
But my 440 6bbl Roadrunner is my favorite.
And for the most part, I don't say **** like "late 70s Trans Ams are plastic laden slow pieces of crap" with a screaming chicken on the hood...

I've owned a couple of 1971 Road Runners, and both were terrible cars in every way imaginable. Poor handling, tinny body panels, cheap ass interiors. Junk in every sense of the word. And yes, ugly.

Speed aint everything.

I could give two f***s regarding your opinion of T/A's.

[TheGrudge]

[QUOTE=Sirrotica
The key to the hemi success is the ability to outflow most any other design.[/QUOTE]

I always thought it was flame propagation, I might be wrong.

[Sirrotica]

They usually outflow other designs especially at high RPM or under boost. But the design is more efficient than othe designs in certain situations.


Listed from what makes a hemi unique:

HEMI has a super-efficient combustion chamber, making it markedly more powerful than other engines. Unlike a flat head piston on the engine you might find in your lawnmower, HEMI pistons usually have a dome-shaped head with open, angled valves and twin spark plugs per cylinder.
This configuration allows for:
Extreme intake of air
Optimal mix of fuel and air
Higher compression
More power output

FWIW, The Chinese clone honda small engine just came out with 2 hemi head designs. One on the 5 horse and one on the 13 horse engines. The 5 horse has a definite power advantage while the 13 horse is just about the same power as the previous wedge design. If all things aren't properly designed the advantage of a hemi is lost.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

They usually outflow other designs especially at high RPM or under boost.

Sometimes. But all that can change when you need to squash the intake manifold to fit under the hood and cast an exhaust manifold to bend around a factory frame. As you know that top heavy cylinder head isn't going to help you get around a corner fast

[avman]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

I've owned a couple of 1971 Road Runners, and both were terrible cars in every way imaginable. Poor handling, tinny body panels, cheap ass interiors. Junk in every sense of the word. And yes, ugly.

Speed aint everything.

I could give two f***s regarding your opinion of T/A's.

If you owned the ugliest Roadrunner ever made, 71-74, I understand how you like screaming chickens.
My point wasn't to bash ANY car, it was to call out someone who was.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Sometimes. But all that can change when you need to squash the intake manifold to fit under the hood and cast an exhaust manifold to bend around a factory frame. As you know that top heavy cylinder head isn't going to help you get around a corner fast

Paul, a hemi wouldn't be my first choice for a N/A road racer or circle track car for that very reason. Most Chryslers that had the hemi engine in them back when they were new were going on the dragstrip, not road courses. The 340/360 were a better all around engine if you weren't worried about just racing in a straight line.

Locally one late model driver had a 340 that a guy by the name of Al Krem (out
of Meadville PA) transplanted a set of SBC heads onto. The car was quite fast, but it was outlawed the first night they ran it. The small block was a very potent mopar engine, no doubt.

[avman]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Also not sure what a picture of a modern day Funny car has to do with this thread...but it is a cool picture.

???
I posted a pic of the 65 GTO and my 70 Roadrunner.
If you were making a joke, I missed it.

As far as the 71 anything beating a 78 anything, yeah, I get that. If you knew the smug attitude of some of the teenagers (I was a teen then too, just not "smug") I was in HS with, right after their parents bought them a brand new T/A, and how I bought my own "used car" well, maybe then you'd understand how nice it was to leave them far behind.
My 70 Roadrunner is way faster than that 71 Charger R/T was anyway. A few hotrod parts and a 6bbl setup make that 440 seem like a completely different engine.