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Old 04-17-2014, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by v869tr6 View Post
How much power are you planning? I generally hear the turbine is the restriction on a turbo car. As has been said before Marty made 1700 HP with iron D ports.
Sorry I missed your question. I am thinking 1200-1400 HP would be what I am looking for. I am like you though and I like to drive my car on the street.

Thanks for the help.

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67 Firebird 467 cubic inches 7.71 @ 92 in the 1/8 and 11.69 @ 115 in the 1/4.
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Old 04-17-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Torment View Post
IC not needed at this boost level... I'd hazard a guess the added weight would outweigh the benefit.
You are probably right. I would hazard to guess that with the cooling properties of E85 although not as much as methanol I might be ok without an IC. Thanks for the help.

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Old 04-17-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ventura7211 View Post
The BW S480 is a good turbo, at 467ci it would be close to being on the small side, they run much better with a 350ci range engine. The S475 works well on 325in range engines.

Your heads should be fine, plenty of guys are making 1100WHP range with 317 ls heads that are similar, but not as good as yours on 6.0l engines with a S480 or GT-88 turbo.

On the other hand, several have made 700-1000WHP with stock 5.3ls and a S475.

Its all about matching the turbo and cam to the engine components. The engines above usually use 02 up Z06, LS3, or LS9 cams for budget builds.
Thanks for the help. I am thinking that my final engine I want for my car will be about 440 CI. I am going to buy a IA block and was thinking of keeping the bore at 4.185 bore so I don't have head gaskets issues. I am still thinking of how to build this engine and I am on the fence as what to do CI wise. With the IA block it might be more beneficial to go with more CI though. Just thinking out loud more or less right now on this build. I would also like RA V heads, but you know how wanting is and actually getting goes.

I do have a 467 that is a runner right now that I am planning on starting my turbo build with.

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Old 04-17-2014, 07:02 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceWilkie View Post
Good advise... A pair of S472's with the 83mm turbine wheel (T4 housing)would make a very nice match.(IMO) IIRC the std configuration uses a 1.10 AR but .9 or 1.0 might be a better pick. A single S480 with std T6 96mm wheel 1.32Ar should work well though. Both turbos have wide compressor maps and thus pretty flexible for low to high boost usage.

http://www.forcedinductions.com/productsborgwarner.htm the 400sx72 ETT Jose lists starts at $649 each... However, single or twin Jose will see you get a good match.
Thanks Bruce. I am thinking single turbo for the ease of packaging, but as I get more into the actual building that may change.

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  #65  
Old 04-17-2014, 07:46 PM
73 TRANSAM 73 TRANSAM is offline
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I think 4.25 bore is a good start. That is what I'm building with a PT 91.5 turbo.Rodney Butler has a 4.25 X 4.25 combo.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by quick67bird View Post
Thanks for the help. I am thinking that my final engine I want for my car will be about 440 CI. I am going to buy a IA block and was thinking of keeping the bore at 4.185 bore so I don't have head gaskets issues. I am still thinking of how to build this engine and I am on the fence as what to do CI wise. With the IA block it might be more beneficial to go with more CI though. Just thinking out loud more or less right now on this build. I would also like RA V heads, but you know how wanting is and actually getting goes.

I do have a 467 that is a runner right now that I am planning on starting my turbo build with.
Personally, I would pick out the turbo I wanted to run and build the engine to match it, keep the turbo in its "happy" range.

Without doing the calculations, shooting from the hip so to speak, if you were to buy the S475 and use on the 467, at low rpm, low boost, correct sized exducer, it should be fine at low boost levels and I think meet your current goals, it would have virtually zero lag time as well.

Then if you do build a bigger engine, you could buy another s475 and with twins meet your goals then with a shortblock that can handle the power. The s475 route is the cheapest I've come up with to make good power in a twin configuration.

Other wise you could buy a turbo in the 88-103mm range that would work on both, more money up front for the turbo, but somewhat of a one time expense. Generally speaking, you need a bigger "cheap" turbo to make the same power as a smaller turbo built for class racing, mostly due to billet wheel designs and the cost that go with them.

If you get everything match right, it is really hard to not make big power with turbos.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by quick67bird View Post
Thanks Bruce. I am thinking single turbo for the ease of packaging, but as I get more into the actual building that may change.
A single is easier on the cold side, twins easier on the hotside.

Building a merge is easier out of steel (single) than aluminum (twins) mainly due to welding. (same work involved in building both merges).

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Old 04-18-2014, 04:48 PM
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The downside to the BW's is the weight,they weigh about 50lbs each! I almost went that route but couldn't bring myself to bolt that much weight to the front end. In the end I went with a pair of MP T70's, just enough for the 1200-1400hp I want and they only weigh around 20lbs each. Oh yeah, and they were only $575 each.

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Old 04-18-2014, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
The downside to the BW's is the weight,they weigh about 50lbs each! I almost went that route but couldn't bring myself to bolt that much weight to the front end. In the end I went with a pair of MP T70's, just enough for the 1200-1400hp I want and they only weigh around 20lbs each. Oh yeah, and they were only $575 each.
I wlll have to check those out. Thanks

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Old 04-18-2014, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ventura7211 View Post
A single is easier on the cold side, twins easier on the hotside.

Building a merge is easier out of steel (single) than aluminum (twins) mainly due to welding. (same work involved in building both merges).
Thanks for your help. I am sure I will have a lot of questions as I get.further into this build.

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  #71  
Old 04-18-2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taff2 View Post
The downside to the BW's is the weight,they weigh about 50lbs each! I almost went that route but couldn't bring myself to bolt that much weight to the front end. In the end I went with a pair of MP T70's, just enough for the 1200-1400hp I want and they only weigh around 20lbs each. Oh yeah, and they were only $575 each.
Agree the t6 versions are a bit heavy... the t4 versions I suggested are lighter but probably not as light as the MP's...

I merely suggested the 472 t4 Borgs as they are a suitable match to what he has planned for now and large enough to cover a bigger ci stronger higher power combo later.

I dont know as much(or hear as much) about the MPs as the Borgs.

If he runs a single, a T6 housing is best way to go on 400+ ci motors IMO.

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Old 04-18-2014, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by BruceWilkie View Post
Agree the t6 versions are a bit heavy... the t4 versions I suggested are lighter but probably not as light as the MP's...

I merely suggested the 472 t4 Borgs as they are a suitable match to what he has planned for now and large enough to cover a bigger ci stronger higher power combo later.

I dont know as much(or hear as much) about the MPs as the Borgs.

If he runs a single, a T6 housing is best way to go on 400+ ci motors IMO.
I am still researching the different frames of turbos and the weights. I am not looking for a max effort type of turbo engine. I am looking for good HP, but want some longevity out of the turbos as well.

Thanks for the help Bruce and everyone else who has helped me.

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  #73  
Old 04-19-2014, 08:29 AM
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I agree the BW's are a good turbo for the money,never seem to hear of any problems with them either. I believe the Master Power turbos have been renamed to Magnum turbos but are basically identical.

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Old 04-19-2014, 10:21 AM
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I agree the BW's are a good turbo for the money,never seem to hear of any problems with them either. I believe the Master Power turbos have been renamed to Magnum turbos but are basically identical.
I need to check into the MP's more closely... I've seen nothing negative but havent brought myself up to date on them and dug in. I can think of a few Turbonetic and Garrets that could work well, but I like the Borgs hot side drive capabilities and the cold side's wide maps...

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Old 04-19-2014, 10:28 AM
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A pair of T-72 or T-76 Turbonetics Turbos will easily make the 1400 HP Target and each turbo weights 26 Pounds (on my bathroom scale). (:>).

Tom Vaught

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  #76  
Old 04-20-2014, 08:08 AM
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A mate of mine has a pair of Precision 76's with billet comp wheels on his BBC combo,easy 1800hp capability, about 25lbs each in weight and they weren't expensive either, around $1250 each IIRC, sourced them through Travis.

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Old 04-20-2014, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by quick67bird View Post
You are probably right. I would hazard to guess that with the cooling properties of E85 although not as much as methanol I might be ok without an IC. Thanks for the help.
My IAT's drop going down the track with roughly half the ethanol through the supercharger - not a turbo. For a blow through I'd run no IC, injected in the runner you'll want it over about 15lbs. Gdlk!

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Old 04-20-2014, 11:27 AM
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Did I see blow thru ????? Do yourself a favor and go EFI -- It can do so much more and make the engine happy --

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Old 04-20-2014, 06:52 PM
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I am going thru the specifying phase right now on a pair of billet turbo's for my 555. Since its only a street car I know the compressor side. 72mm. Plenty of power available from twin 72's.

But there is still some thought being put into the turbine side as to the best size. 83mm or 87mm in a 1.3 A/R stainless housing that uses a V-band mount.

And the primary pipe on the turbo headers will only be 2". On a N/A motor, a 555 would be at least 2.250. So big difference there.

  #80  
Old 04-21-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cgeise View Post
Did I see blow thru ????? Do yourself a favor and go EFI -- It can do so much more and make the engine happy --
I am hoping to do EFI. I have most of the parts now, but need to get the Electronics side of the FI figured out.

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