#401  
Old 08-13-2021, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will slow gto View Post
Hey Roger, Iím curious which level Art Carr 200r4 you went with. It looks like you got one with the bop bolt pattern so you donít need the adapter plate. Do you know if 200r4 requires and Ďmassagingí of the floor pan/braces? Thanks and keep up the stellar work!
Thanks!
I got his 400 to 600HP version with a BOP pattern.
No messaging at all. It fits perfectly. With the yoke he sells, the original driveshaft fits fine too but it does need a conversion type u-joint.

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  #402  
Old 08-18-2021, 11:36 AM
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Default Color choice

I have been struggling for a long while whether to keep this car it's original Liberty Blue or change it to Matador Red. I have finally made the decision and the red is my choice. I know there will be some here that think this will be a mistake but I have some reasons.

Number one is that although I do have quite a bit of painting skill, painting an all over job dark metallic is something I haven't done before. I'm not sure I can do it perfectly. Plus when doing a metallic, it's important to paint the base on all the panels in the same day and in the same orientation as the car will be when assembled. Since I prefer to paint the car with the panels removed, I do not have the space to be able to do them all in the same day and orientation.

Number 2 is that my wife really likes the red better than blue and she has frowned every time I mentioned I was going to paint it Liberty Blue. As for me, I really like the blue and think it's one of the best blues of all. But I like very dark Matador Red just as well. I've always liked it. The kicker is that I know if I choose the red, it will come out perfect and if I went with the blue I'd have to paint the car with the panels mounted which I don't want to do and even then I don't have total confidence that it would look perfect.

So anyway the decision is final. It will be Matador Red. I've also made a decision on what paint to buy and it will be SPI Dark Red base coat and their Universal Clear on top. I will also use the SPI red epoxy for the last coat of primer under the base.

Btw, Pontiac Matador Red is the same as Chevrolet Garnet Red, Buick Signal Red and Oldsmobile Crimson Red. All have the same code and formula for 1969.
I knew Barry was trying for an exact match of Garnet Red when he was developing the color for SPI Dark Red back in 2016. I asked him recently if his final formula did turn out to be a match for Garnet. He told me back when he was developing the color, he had ordered quarts of Garnet Red from 3 different manufacturers and all 3 were a little different so really he couldn't definitively give an answer as it would depend on the manufacturer of what you were comparing his to. Another pro on the SPI forum told me that he went to a concours type show where there were 2 '69 Garnet Red Camaros side by side both claiming to be original colors but yet looked different. He also said one of them was dead on to SPI Dark Red.
So the answer is really a subjective one but I can call SPI Dark Red is Matador Red and it is not a misleading thing to say. I spent the time asking this question as I wanted to be able to respond to anyone that asks without being misleading about it being a color that although isn't the original, was an available choice from the factory.

Here is an SPI Dark Red paint card that SPI sent me. I took of photo of the card in several under several different lighting conditions. I also compared the card to every red I could find around my shop and the card was a darker red than every one of them.


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'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
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  #403  
Old 08-18-2021, 11:47 AM
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Two GREAT colors there, can't go wrong either way!

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69 GTO 467, 850 Holley, T2, Edelbrock Dport 310cfm w Ram Air manifolds, HFT 245/251D .561/.594L, T400, 9" w 3.50s 3905lbs 11.64@ 114, 1.59/ 60'
  #404  
Old 08-18-2021, 11:47 AM
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Congrats on your decision.
IMHO, its more about which color better shows off the 69's body lines and matches with the top and guts.

  #405  
Old 08-20-2021, 07:47 PM
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Updates:

Removed front end panels.

Trial fitted inner fenders. No issues there just wanted to check to make sure that my install order for my final assembly after paint didn't present any problems.

Block sanded all of the nose.

Reworked both fenders at the patch panel area. The style lines were not as straight from front to back as I liked. It was hard to see but I wanted them better. I'm very satisfied with them now.

Re-assembled the front end panels. I really wanted to pull it apart and re-assemble anyway just to make sure I could get everything aligned exactly the same way as I had it. It does take a while but I was successful.

Here's a few photos of it assembled again. I tried to take photos at an angle that shows the straightness of the lower style lines well.













I also starting working on the trunk area and started with filling the factory quarter to trunk filler panel where it was leaded originally. As you might remember, I beefed up the factory welding with new multiple passes.
I started with applying SPI epoxy primer using a brush and allowed it to dry overnight. Then I appled Evercoat short strand fiberglass reinforced filler. It also has kevlar in it to add strength.







After applying the filler and sanding smooth:





Next, I installed the trunk lid panel and got it lined up and level best as I could. I did use a hammer and dolly a bit on the edges of the panel for level matching. It didn't take a lot. There was one place that was just a bid too wide on the panel for the opening. From the factory, the passenger side edge wasn't quite straight and caused the gap to be too narrow in a section. I sanded it down to make it straight. This did go through the skin that wraps around the inner structure so I welded it closed and ground back smooth again:



I also added a little more filler to the to get a good gap where the previous leaded seams were. Here's as it is now:















The list is getting shorter of things that need to be done before getting the entire body in primer. I need to fit the trunk lid trim and quarter extensions to make sure everything fits as it should. I'm waiting for delivery on the extension for the passenger side. A member here is sending me one and it is enroute. I also need to order more primer and will do that this weekend. In the mean time I'll start using a D/A with 80 grit on all the panels to get everything scuffed.

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  #406  
Old 08-20-2021, 10:56 PM
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Better than factory...nice.

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  #407  
Old 08-21-2021, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vertigto View Post
Better than factory...nice.
Absolutely agree. They weren't anywhere near as nice as this from the factory. Beautiful work.

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  #408  
Old 08-22-2021, 12:40 PM
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The fit and gaps are superb, Way better than new. You do top notch work!

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  #409  
Old 08-23-2021, 07:21 PM
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Default Primer ordered.

Thanks everyone for the compliments! It makes it a lot easier for me to do a good job since I have a blast doing this stuff.

I ordered primer and some sanding supplies that all shipped today. I bought more SPI epoxy primer and some their Turbo primer which is a 2K urethane. I also ordered some Evercoat Slick Sand polyester primer.

I also ordered a new paint gun for exclusively for spraying polyester primer. It's an Iwata Airgunsa 3.0 mm tip gun. A saw a youtube video of a guy using one of these and saw how it sprays so much faster than the 2.2 mm primer gun I had been using for it. Here it is if anyone is interested:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP5X...atsnestHotrods

Everything should be here by the end of the week so I may be able to lay down the primer over the weekend. First will be 2 coats of black SPI epoxy primer and then the Slick Sand the following day. I will only spray it where I think it needs a higher build, not the entire car. After I block sanding the polyester primer, I'll spray the entire body (except for the nose) with the Turbo 2K primer. The nose only gets additional epoxy primer since it the only primer that remains flexible.

I got the body all prepped with a D/A using 80 grit and cleaned the dust off the car and out of the room. Kind of has that DeLorean look now.








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Old 08-23-2021, 08:36 PM
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Very nice work! I hope you reconsider Liberty Blue. That color with the Parchment interior is like the all time **** GTO color combo. EDIT: I didn't know **** was a prohibited word.

  #411  
Old 08-23-2021, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Meyer View Post
Very nice work! I hope you reconsider Liberty Blue. That color with the Parchment interior is like the all time **** GTO color combo. EDIT: I didn't know **** was a prohibited word.
Thank you!

I'm guessing your word was K***A**.
You are right, it is that. But Matador Red with Parchment is too. But no, the decision is made. I know it wouldn't have been the thing to do if I were keeping the car original (which I could have). But that was never an option I considered. It was going to be a restomod from day 1. Even then, I struggled with keeping it blue or going red. But my reasons for going with red were just too compelling.

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  #412  
Old 08-23-2021, 10:11 PM
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You have that so straight you should just polish it and spray some clearcoat. Wow! I think you have outdone yourself. Thanks for sharing all your work.

  #413  
Old 08-28-2021, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiny View Post
You have that so straight you should just polish it and spray some clearcoat. Wow! I think you have outdone yourself. Thanks for sharing all your work.
Thanks for your compliments! You might change your thoughts when you see the black primer on it though. Nothing like black epoxy primer to make what you think looks great in bare metal to kind of looking like crap!

So here's my update for the last few days of work.
I removed the nose to apply primer to it separately as I don't want to get any polyester or 2K urethane primer on it. Want to have only epoxy on it as it stays flexible. I put it back on the saw horses and applied 2 coats of white epoxy followed by 2 coats of black. I used white so I would be able to see if I blocked through the black. The next day, I block sanded it all and then sprayed 2 more coats of black on it. So 6 more coats in all.







I then used a combination of stretch wrap and plastic sheeting to make sure I wouldn't get any overspray on the engine and front suspension when I primered the body.





Yesterday, I sprayed 2 coats of black epoxy primer over the entire body.







I now know where all the door dings and hail damage is! I knew it had some but I didn't know it had this many! No big deal as this is the time to get them all filled. It sure made my patch panel butt welds look a lot worse too!

My original intention was to spray polyester primer at this point but I changed up and decided to use filler before doing that.

So here is how it looks as it is right now:









After I get this filler work done, I will spray epoxy primer again and then I will be ready to spray it with the polyester.

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Old 08-28-2021, 10:32 PM
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Nice quality work, looks great and Iím sure youíll be happy with Matador. My first ever 69 ragtop (84-87) was Matador with ivory top and parchment guts.

The two attached photos are my next ragtop (owned 1987-2001), matador with red guts and black top. This car drew more looks and complements than any car Iíve ever owned (which is both good and bad ;-).

Some people arenít big fans of Matador but I love it. It has some pinkishness to it (what some people donít like) but the black in it makes it look great in every light. The two pics show how different the color looked in different light.

The other pic is my Catalina, all original paint except i had to put an NOS nose on her as the original had leprosy.

I find that the 68-69 GTO body looks best with medium colors, light and very dark colors just donít compliment the lines quite as much.
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1969 GTO (a Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Cat (2 Cvtís & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
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  #415  
Old 08-28-2021, 10:34 PM
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Hereís the last photo I meant to post.
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My Break Away Squad
1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvtís - TA Hardtop)
1969 LeMans (4dr Hardtop & a Cvt)
1969 GTO (a Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Cat (2 Cvtís & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #416  
Old 08-28-2021, 10:35 PM
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Btw, I find that a black top looks better on a red convertible but ivory looks good too.

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1969 Fbird (Base, 350 & Sprint Cvtís - TA Hardtop)
1969 LeMans (4dr Hardtop & a Cvt)
1969 GTO (a Cvt, 2 Hardtops & Judge Hardtop)
1969 Cat (2 Cvtís & a 2dr hardtop)
1969 Ventura 2 Seat Wagon
1969 Executive 4dr Sedan
1969 Bonnie 3 Seat Wagon (2 of them)
1969 Bonnie Brougham (4dr Hardtop & Cvt)
1969 Grand Prix SJ (2 of them)
1969 2+2 2dr Hardtop (Canadian model)
  #417  
Old 08-28-2021, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roger1 View Post
...Nothing like black epoxy primer to make what you think looks great in bare metal to kind of looking like crap!....
Understand but your body work looks fantastic and after all that effort and commitment to quality, I'm sure every minor ding would jump out at you.

..but to me as a bystander with zero skills, it looks a couple hundred notches above crap in the black primer.

Very nice work and if your welded seams get perfected by that amount of filler, you are really good at keeping them straight.

  #418  
Old 08-29-2021, 12:15 AM
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So glad you posted those pics, exactly what mine was looking like when I was doing the filler .... I was thinking no one else's car ever seems to look this way Then the next coat of primer things get better, a bit more filler work and more primer an they get even better.

Course mine has a few "character" dings that I missed and decided to leave in ... cause you know, I don't want it TOO perfect it wouldn't fit my personality

Shame your not a neighbor so I could hang out and watch.

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Old 09-01-2021, 04:24 AM
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BTW ... thank you a ton for the personal help you gave me on my work. Your recommendations worked out great.

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Old 09-01-2021, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by north View Post
Nice quality work, looks great and Iím sure youíll be happy with Matador. My first ever 69 ragtop (84-87) was Matador with ivory top and parchment guts.

The two attached photos are my next ragtop (owned 1987-2001), matador with red guts and black top. This car drew more looks and complements than any car Iíve ever owned (which is both good and bad ;-).

Some people arenít big fans of Matador but I love it. It has some pinkishness to it (what some people donít like) but the black in it makes it look great in every light. The two pics show how different the color looked in different light.

The other pic is my Catalina, all original paint except i had to put an NOS nose on her as the original had leprosy.

I find that the 68-69 GTO body looks best with medium colors, light and very dark colors just donít compliment the lines quite as much.
I love those Catalinas! Always have. Back in '66 when I was 11, my dad ordered a new '67 Catalina wagon with having it in mind to move our family from New York to Phoenix, AZ that next summer. It was our first car with A/C. I remember going to the dealer with him to pick up the car and seeing a Firebird on the lot for the first time. Never even heard of them before that day. I sure gave it a good look over. It had the hood tach installed too.



I never looked it up before but I'd say it's Montego Cream.

Yeah, I like the black top with Matador too but no more than the Ivory and I think I like Ivory better with the Parchment interior. No thinking about it here, that is the way I will go. One thing I really like about the Parchment interior is that the dash and Carpet are both black. It's my absolute favorite interior.

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'69 GTO Convertible - Acquired October 2020. An all original project car. Restomod is underway PROJECT THREAD
'83 Chevy Choo Choo SS El Camino - LT1 350/4L60e, Owned for 30 Years, completed 2nd restomod in 2018 PHOTO
2019 BMW 440ix - Twin turbo I6, 8spd auto. PHOTO
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