["QUICK-SILVER"]

Originally Posted by steve25

Take pictures of how the fuel pump eccentric goes back on for reference.

With the nose of the cam protruding thru the front of the cam gear, the eccentic will only fit one way.

Clay

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by "QUICK-SILVER"

With the nose of the cam protruding thru the front of the cam gear, the eccentic will only fit CORRECTLY one way.

Clay

fixed it

[Dragncar]

Cliff likes the Morse chain on roller cams. Spotts does not recommend them.
I have a chain delima, maybe. Line bored block.
Tightest chain I have is a Morse. .004 short Cloyes is looser by a tad.
I could try each and see where they come in at.
Or try Spotts .004 short roller chain and/or Butlers .004 chort Comp chain with Torrington.
Probably overthinking it. Run the Morse and be done with it.

[grivera]

The issue with the Morse chain is degreeing-in the cam if you don't have the correct increment off set cam or crank keys. I have a Cloyes Morse chain in my bird and unbelievably it dialed in at the recommended 107 with no off-set keys.

[firechicken]

The last chain you will ever buy looks like this...

[Dragncar]

I thought about it. Crank, rods and pistons are in the block. Not sure if I want to deal with drilling and tapping at this point.
Has anyone ever installed a Milodon gear drive on a assembled short block ?

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by grivera

The issue with the Morse chain is degreeing-in the cam if you don't have the correct increment off set cam or crank keys. I have a Cloyes Morse chain in my bird and unbelievably it dialed in at the recommended 107 with no off-set keys.

I have a 4 deg and 2 deg offset keys. I need 112-114.

[MidnightAuto]

that setup looks above my paygrade. reminds me when my son saw a stick shift for the first time and asked what it was for.

[Cliff R]

"First up is timing chain. Does this chain slack look ok or should I replace? https://youtu.be/32vZmd1Sj0k"

ALL timing sets develop some chain slop after they are placed in service.

From what I can see you have the "lower" end variety, cast iron top sprocket and 3 keyway lower sprocket. Can't tell if it's a seamless true roller chain, seamed roller or seamed fix variety but I'd toss it in the round file and get something better.......

[pastry_chef]

Power loss from a tight timing chain.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk12lbg6SNI

[MidnightAuto]

thanks guys. I ordered a 9 keyway rollmaster so lets see how that goes.

Cliff, I've got another thread going on this build overall, and would love your input on the 60916 vs 60243 if you have a sec to read. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=851633 I found an old thread where you opined on this cams a bit and wondered what your opinion is today...

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by MidnightAuto

thanks guys. I ordered a 9 keyway rollmaster so lets see how that goes.

Cliff, I've got another thread going on this build overall, and would love your input on the 60916 vs 60243 if you have a sec to read. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=851633 I found an old thread where you opined on this cams a bit and wondered what your opinion is today...

Sir, thats the worst one of all the billet 9 keyway chains.
The Cloyes with German made "Z" chain is the best.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...z/make/pontiac

I have both, not using the Rollermaster.

[MidnightAuto]

dragncar - thanks for the heads up. While this is not really going to see much of any hard core strip time, probably better to safe than sorry....

[Cliff R]

I tried the Rollmaster in my first 455 build in 1999. It lasted about 4 years then failed miserably. It actually surprised me because it survived thru ICL testing, the KRE head swap and resulting HPP and Popular Hot rodding articles, and quite a few drag strip runs and street miles.

It failed one night at the track, not a complete failure but for sure I shut the engine down, trailered the car and pulled the engine the next day. I was getting some noise from the front of the engine and it slowed WAY down in both ET and MPH. Didn't sound right either, so I knew something major was wrong inside.

I had pulled the timing covered multiple times and every time I did the chained looked fine with minimal "slop" and gears were in mint condition.

After it got noisy and the car slowed way down it had so much slack in it I could literally walk it right off the gears! I suppose when a roller chain develops enough slack it may start "whipping" back and forth wearing it out really fast from there on till it's done. Not sure about all that but I've seen enough Rollmaster timing chains get stupid loose that I'll never go that direction again.

I have always used the 3/4" wide Mosrse timing sets on my engines prior to the one time I used a Rollmaster double roller. Even on Chevy builds they get the link-belt set-up, and never once in over 40 years have we had a single issue with any of those engines.

We don't see a lot of feedback on the subject simply because of the way these cars are driven and used these days. It's rare for one to get 1000 miles a year put on it, some much less. From what I've seen if you drive the car a lot and get out to 25,000-30,000 miles you may find the double roller variety chain is really loose and in need of replacement.

Of course when you talk about these things there are always a few folks who will chime in that they've had on in their engine since Moby Dick wanted to be a minnow, drove the car 100,000 miles a year and their double roller timing chain is still as tight as a banjo string, so like most of these topics the water gets muddied quickly.

Even with all that said my personal engines get older 3/4" stock timing sets, back when they heat treated the gears and used top quality USA made chains. I'm not sure what's out there now as I haven't bought a Melling or Cloyes stock timing set in at least 5 years now, so tread forward at your own risk.......FWIW.....Cliff

[firechicken]

Yes, it was 2 stretched out sloppy rollmasters in a row, both with minimal run time that pushed me to the Milodon gear drive.

At that time it was near impossible to find a factory timing set about 12 years ago.

[Gary H]

I won't, and don't, use Rollmaster timing chain sets on anything anymore. I've seen several that had less than a thousand miles on them get sloppy loose. Also, I have had several sets that the gears were too tight to go on either the cam or the crank snout. I tried a Cloyes on the same engines and they go on fine. Lastly, it's always a crap shoot when you degree in the cam with a Rollmaster chain and gears. I have seen them off 4-6 degrees. Cloyes only for me. Never had a problem with them. Made in Arkansas too.

[Cliff R]

"Cliff, I've got another thread going on this build overall, and would love your input on the 60916 vs 60243 if you have a sec to read. https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=851633 I found an old thread where you opined on this cams a bit and wondered what your opinion is today..."

I missed this until today.

Not quite sure what you are doing but it appears to be a 421 build?

Going to install KRE aluminum "D" ports with 65cc chambers?

What will the compression ratio be if this is the case?......

[Dragncar]

Well, I kinda feel like I cheated on my girlfriend. Bought a ROLLERMASTER chain from Butler.
I am pulling my hairs out trying to find a chain I am happy with for my 400 block. it has splayed billet caps so it has been line bored and honed. But the guy who dod it knew what he was doing (Whitmore) and there are still faint hints of the original factory hone marks on the front main.
I have a stock Morse chain and it has 3/8 movement. A old stock std Rollermaster and it has at least 3/8". I bought a new std Cloyes with German chain and it had the same.

Bought a Cloyes .005 short chain and it is not much better. Thing is with Cloyes only their std chain gets the German/Swiss made chain. You get a chain with a seam in it with their .005 and .010 short chains.
Now I have/had a chain I was somewhat happy with but for the life of me I can not find it. Put some things in storage, threw some stuff out and at this point I can not locate it. It was a Cloyes .010 short set I bought on Amazon for 60$. It was a 160$ set normally so I just bought it thinking why not. Not even close to fitting, chain was too short. So I called Cloyes and bought a new std German chain by itself and together with the gears from the .010 under set I had 1/8" movement.
So I was looking for a set that would make me happy. I tried to call Spotts with the link Pasty-Chef kindly gave out but can not get though. The expensive chain set he sells looks just like a Rollermaster so at first was not interested in that. I have come to the conclusion there are different levels of Rollermaster chains. You see some that look just like it for 100$. Even ones modified with bronze bushing for 100$. The Comp chain Butler sells for 140$ with Torrington bearing looks like a Rollermaster and has low grade chain with seams. The chain I was interester was Spotts short chain with cast gears and gold chain. Only 62$ so why not.
But the Rollermaster chain Butler now sells is the seamless Iwis even with their short chain. And the "chain only" sells for 100$. So I am hoping the "Red series Pro Billet with Iwis chain set is better than the stuff they used to sell.
I will let you guys know how it works out.

[grivera]

Is 1/8” deflection too tight? Seems that May be a good chain to use. The tight chain Dave Vizard described practically had no deflection.

[3X24SPD]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Well, I kinda feel like I cheated on my girlfriend. Bought a ROLLERMASTER chain from Butler.
I am pulling my hairs out trying to find a chain I am happy with for my 400 block. it has splayed billet caps so it has been line bored and honed. But the guy who dod it knew what he was doing (Whitmore) and there are still faint hints of the original factory hone marks on the front main.
I have a stock Morse chain and it has 3/8 movement. A old stock std Rollermaster and it has at least 3/8". I bought a new std Cloyes with German chain and it had the same.

Bought a Cloyes .005 short chain and it is not much better. Thing is with Cloyes only their std chain gets the German/Swiss made chain. You get a chain with a seam in it with their .005 and .010 short chains.
Now I have/had a chain I was somewhat happy with but for the life of me I can not find it. Put some things in storage, threw some stuff out and at this point I can not locate it. It was a Cloyes .010 short set I bought on Amazon for 60$. It was a 160$ set normally so I just bought it thinking why not. Not even close to fitting, chain was too short. So I called Cloyes and bought a new std German chain by itself and together with the gears from the .010 under set I had 1/8" movement.
So I was looking for a set that would make me happy. I tried to call Spotts with the link Pasty-Chef kindly gave out but can not get though. The expensive chain set he sells looks just like a Rollermaster so at first was not interested in that. I have come to the conclusion there are different levels of Rollermaster chains. You see some that look just like it for 100$. Even ones modified with bronze bushing for 100$. The Comp chain Butler sells for 140$ with Torrington bearing looks like a Rollermaster and has low grade chain with seams. The chain I was interester was Spotts short chain with cast gears and gold chain. Only 62$ so why not.
But the Rollermaster chain Butler now sells is the seamless Iwis even with their short chain. And the "chain only" sells for 100$. So I am hoping the "Red series Pro Billet with Iwis chain set is better than the stuff they used to sell.
I will let you guys know how it works out.

Dragncar, have you measured Center to Center on your cam/crank? Should be 5.192".