[62posbonny]

Small world. I have a 6.0 LS in my 71 Cutlass and an EFI 462 in my 63 Catalina. Both are fun in their own right, but as of right now the Cutlass is much faster.

[Scarebird]

What sort of mileage did you Cutlass drivers get? Were they 6L80E's?

[62posbonny]

My tune needs a little brushing up on light load cruise I believe, I'm only getting 19mpg with a built 4l60e and 3.73's. Made 428hp/400tq at the wheels with a really mild 227/232 street cam. Makes for a fun driver.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

You can not go fast cheap in a Pontiac, who cares ?
Pontiacs are cool, LSs in old Pontiacs a very lame. Weak.
We had a guy put a LS truck engine in a nice 66 SS. Ran 12s.
If you cant build a nice Pontiac or are too cheap to do it right run the LS. But keep them out of our Pontiacs.
We have had guys shove chebbys in them for so long and now we have to deal with the LS crowd. You can have them, but then you are one of "them".
The common ground of the Pontiac engine is why we are all here.

While I agree, Pontiac put Chebby's in Pontiacs in the 60's and 70's.

[Lee]

I really haven't driven my Cutlass enough to even bother calculating MPG. It is a cathedral headed motor, 4L60.

My '01 Formula with 4L60 and 2.73's got 25+mpg on a highway trip a few months ago.

My '73 has 3.08's, and on a recent hwy trip it got a bit over 13mpg. It also recently ran a traction-limited 13.20 @ 102.9. I know the Cutlass is quicker, but it is a convertible and hasn't been to the track since the swap.

[Sirrotica]

The ebay turbo builders are BURNING through the LS supply, though. In 10 years, it will be tough to find a decent junkyard.

The supply will be dwindling because all the GM trucks received a LS engine in the early 2000s, if they didn't buy a V6. Now I see a Cadillac SUV over the past weekend with a 2.0 Ecotech with a turbo, so with GM following ford toward downsized displacement, and turbocharging, the V8s will be going away in the light duty trucks/SUVs, cutting into the supply of good used engines.

I also own Stratostreak powered cars, and an 05 LS2 GTO. There is no doubt that GM taking all the cues from all divisions V8s, and applying them to one engine (LS) was advantageous. The refinement of fuel and spark controls and computer aided designs for such things as port design, cam and lifter design, all helped over the pre 1955 designs of the original Stratostreak engine. One of thre main advantages is weight savings, vs bottom end integrity by using the skirted block design. I dare say if the early Pontiac Stratostreak design team could see into the future, they would have used a skirted block. They did look into this strengthening the bottom end in the still born OHC concept engine that was shown on Hot Rod magazine cover in the late 60s/early 70s.

Fortunately the aftermarket has been pretty kind to the Stratostreak engine, so where the factory dropped off, the aftermarket picked up. It's still an early 50s design, and we can only do so much to try and keep up with other engines in design.

My first love will always be the Stratostreak engine, but time marches on, and there is no factory producing Pontiac V8 engines. Even if Pontiac was still around, they would have adopted another design of V8 by this time. You have to give the initial design team credit for closing in on 70 years their engine is still around in the high performance arena.

Just look what the Boss Bird team did with it on nitro. I don't think there are ay LS blown nitro cars that I'm aware of, but admittedly, I don't follow drag racing that closely either.

Every engine design does some things well, the search is for engine designs that do the most things well. Pontiac has to be in there, because it's still around enough to be noticed. How many choices are there for aluminum cylinder heads?

[Scarebird]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

The ebay turbo builders are BURNING through the LS supply, though. In 10 years, it will be tough to find a decent junkyard.

I think the issue here is there are 2 main batches: 1999-2013 and 2014-present. The later engines have superior heads and other improvements but come with AFM, direct injection, 8 bolt flex plates and different engine mounts.

Once the aftermarket really gets in gear on the later stuff and more hit the boneyard they will be more prevalent in builds. Not sure how the later aluminum blocks will do with the turbo stuff.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by grivera

I'm missing something - in that Youtube link it appears the Camaro outran the Chevelle

The race never happened. The LS car packed up and went home rather than race. The video is of our first test pass. Thanks for watching.

[Tom Vaught]

DIRECT INJECTION is not necessarily the best solution for a street performance vehicle
as historically the cam driven Fuel Pumps were typically limited to about 425 HP.
Food for thought.

The hot set-up would be to investigate what the 800 plus HP Mopars are doing and
the latest LS engines HP numbers vs direct injection.

Tom V.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

This Thread reminded me of a grudge race we had set up many years ago. It was a standard Port 23 degree head 383 small block Chevy vs LS powered Camaro with all the whiz-bang bells, whistles and latest technology. The Camaro was an Internet hero and we were kind of tired of hearing about it. It was backed by one of the largest LS shops in the country. The race was set up so each guy would make one hit in each lane, we would flip a coin for lane choice and race off a pro tree. I linked a video to our first pass. When we were about to make our second pass we noticed the Camaro was loaded up on the trailer and leaving. The guy was so impressed with our first pass he decided to pay the punk out money and go home.

https://fb.watch/9AxyZW-8RN/

The Camaro continued to terrorize the Internet but never talked about this race.

#EHTTFMF's

#LS LOL

#LS'sAREEASYTOBEAT

That has a turbo on it lol

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

While I agree, Pontiac put Chebby's in Pontiacs in the 60's and 70's.

Yes I know. you had all the Canadian pickups, olds engines in Pontiacs and that.
But the main reason I hate chebbys in Pontiac is the Chevrolet itself snuffed all the prototype Pontiac engines that would have beat the Vette. They had veto power.
The 1970 10-1 SD 455, 428 RAV with 2x4s and a tunnel, 1970 SOHC Hemi Mod engine. Why was there never a high performance 428-455 in the GTOs and Birds ?
They would not let those engines see the light of day. And that is what I have against them. Dan Whitmore told me all about it. Friends with Tom Nell. Held the 96 casting 90 cc 455 SD heads in his lap. Down to the tubes in the intake runners. 2 sets were made.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

That has a turbo on it lol

Both cars had a turbo

[i82much]

I like Chevy engines in Chevies, Pontiac engines in Pontiacs, cheese on cheeseburgers, ham on hamburg ... hey, wait a minute!!!

[JSchmitz]

If you think the LS platform is bad, you're a fool. Have an intelligent discussion about the design differences if you want to make good use of your time. Quit the defensive excuse making. I used to be a retrofit hater. I'm over it. I'm putting an LS (actually Vortec) engine in my '64 GTO. For the street, I'm gonna love it. I also have most of my Poncho parts. So I can build a drag car or something if I want. Brand allegiance is a joke anyway. LS engines aren't SBC, new Hemi is not a Hemi, SBF.... Hot Rodding has always been about stuffing big power in light vehicles. Embrace it and smile wide!

If you're a Pontiac purist, put one of these in your car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_straight-8_engine Otherwise you're a sellout poser!!!

[Tom Vaught]

Even though the Pontiac Brand and GTO is dead, GTO never mean 389 or 400 engines.

Gran Turismo Omologato means Grand Touring Homologated, meaning certified as Grand Touring by FIA(Federation Internationale d'Automobile).

A GTO could be Ford vehicle that met those qualifications:
A Grand Touring Homologated Automobile.

Have to smile when I read that Pontiac INVENTED the GTO in 1964.

Tom V.

[Nobuddy]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

An example would be Ken Block's 1400 hp twin turbo "Hoonicorn" custom Gymkhana Ford Mustang" But Ken Block and his cars are not typical and he beats the crap out of them VS run a dyno test and get a number.

"Ken Block's custom Gymkhana Ford Mustang packing a twin-turbo V8 tuned to 1,400 horsepower, connected to a six-speed sequential gearbox and all-wheel drive, with a weight figure kept under 3,000 pounds."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7Tl7Zn-KRE

But I would like to have 1 tenth of the money he has invested in that car.
He has moved on to other manufacturers brands after a 10+ year deal with Ford.

Tom V.

A vehicle capable of the Hoonicorn performance is possible with Railroad Train Box Cars filled with cash, BUT is not normal.

Ken moved on to Audi so looks like he has handed the Hoonicorn down. Can anyone imagine what it would be like to be born into that heritage. Not quite the same horse most 14 year old girls want.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc8Yj9J8MQs

Barry

[Tom Vaught]

She probably has better driving skills vs the entire field of women who drove in NASCAR races even at 14 years of age.
And she probably would be less likely to get hurt in a NASCAR "spin" (where a driver gives her a welcome to NASCAR "tap").

That being said the engine in the car is far from a stock mustang. Same deal with LS engines and "other" LS engines.
Or Pontiac Engines vs "other" Pontiac engines. The European Pontiac race vehicle as a example. Roger's Car.

Tom V.

[MUSLCAH]

It’s like sticking with a Flathead vs a V8..

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by JSchmitz

If you think the LS platform is bad, you're a fool. Have an intelligent discussion about the design differences if you want to make good use of your time. Quit the defensive excuse making. I used to be a retrofit hater. I'm over it. I'm putting an LS (actually Vortec) engine in my '64 GTO. For the street, I'm gonna love it. I also have most of my Poncho parts. So I can build a drag car or something if I want. Brand allegiance is a joke anyway. LS engines aren't SBC, new Hemi is not a Hemi, SBF.... Hot Rodding has always been about stuffing big power in light vehicles. Embrace it and smile wide!

If you're a Pontiac purist, put one of these in your car: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_straight-8_engine Otherwise you're a sellout poser!!!

It's all good with me. We have Fords, Chevys, and Pontiacs in the stable. One Pontiac I had came factory with a SBC in it (71 Ventura Sprint) I actually got a kick out of the look on peoples faces when I'd park with a Pontiac group.

I'm okay with all of it. I just enjoy the car hobby for what it is. All the silly bickering about this is better than that is fine for others if that's what they want to do with their time. Personally I don't care. I'm more about driving the wheels off them, race them, and just all around enjoying them no matter what the brand is. I'm just happy seeing classic cars on the road and if that means someone has to swap in their favorite drivetrain to get it on the road, then so be it. It's not mine to tell them what to do. Just drive the damn thing

[Sirrotica]

Funny thing is the Pontiac guys aren't alone in the don't put a LS in every old muscle car. Believe it or not there are some guys that own and admire the early malibu/chevelles/camaros, etc. aren't all that keen on replacing the SBC/BBC engines that the cars were born with, with a LS engine either. Pretty sure olds, and buick guys have the same tug o war internally too.

I know most people think/refer to an LS engine is a chevy, but it's really not, it is a true corporate engine that now is the official V8 of every brand GM has left since 1998.
Buick, Cadillac, and chevy, GMC all get the same corporate engine/engines, so it isn't a chevy engine It's what ford and chrysler did back in the 60s, went to one engine for every division.

I.E. there wasn't a 426 plymouth hemi, and a 426 dodge hemi, it was a 426 chrysler hemi. Same engine in both divisions.