[Steve C.]

"Mineral oils lack such a robust boundary layer, as the oil drains quickly to the oil pan when the engine is off. Nevertheless, the synthetic oil boundary layer affords an enthusiast the necessary piece of mind when their vehicle is started after an extended dormancy. By some estimates, initial start-up and running in the first seconds accounts for as much as 90 percent of all engine wear."

This said, the amount of engine wear at initial start-up is often debated.

The oil weight doesn't have much to do with how it sticks to the metal inside the engine. It's more about the compound of the oil.


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[chiphead]

OK, so let me be the one to pull the pin on the next oil topic grenade...

What synthetic oil has the correct additives for a performance engine with a flat tappet cam, or a severe duty rings?

Let's say we've got an application that needs the extra anti-scuff additives, and wants a synthetic in 10W30? Regular oil change intervals (not a short lived non-detergent race-type oil).

Lets take my application, which is a moderate HR cam with Total Seal AP stainless rings, with CR-33 facing? Engine is street/strip, gapped for a 200 hit of N2O. (The TS guy said the HFT oils will help ring life)

What's a hotrodder to use?

[Gach]

The reason, some engine builders don’t recommend running synthetic oil on or in a street car, is because The synthetic oil is more prone to gasket leaks, how true I don’t know, I do know if you’ve been running regular engine oil and switch over to synthetic people would develop oil leaks. For some reason the gaskets no longer seal as good. I’ve seen this happen so the builders air on the side of caution.

Have some run synthetic on a new build and not have issues probably. Is it the end all to be all, I guess it’s all in what you buy into. Guys looking for all out hp big rpm motors choose it for any hp gain. Or hopefully longevity of the parts. I just wouldn’t run it in a streetcar or street strip car, thats just me.

[Gach]

I’ve been a long time user of Valvoline VR1, are there better oils out there personally I classify it as just as good as Valvoline. There’s really no scientific proof that one particular oil is the best. At some point its all marketing, vs Valvoline having a history, of being number 1 oil sold of all time. That’s not to discouraged people from making other choices. So when asked that question you’re going to get different opinions.

[Steve C.]

Fact or Myth: Synthetic Oil Causes Leaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v04QEj84Rv4

Specific esters, called seal swell agents (SSAs) blended into the oil help remove chances of shrinking seals. SSAs are seal conditioners that clean the seal, and the PAOs lubricate the cleaned seal.


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[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by chiphead

OK, so let me be the one to pull the pin on the next oil topic grenade...

What synthetic oil has the correct additives for a performance engine with a flat tappet cam, or a severe duty rings?

Let's say we've got an application that needs the extra anti-scuff additives, and wants a synthetic in 10W30? Regular oil change intervals (not a short lived non-detergent race-type oil).

Lets take my application, which is a moderate HR cam with Total Seal AP stainless rings, with CR-33 facing? Engine is street/strip, gapped for a 200 hit of N2O. (The TS guy said the HFT oils will help ring life)

What's a hotrodder to use?

There are a bunch of synthetic oils for hot rods. Tony Bischoff got me and my father onto Amsoil years ago and I've used it ever since on all the cars. They have stuff formulated for sitting long periods of time, flat tappet cam stuff, longer change intervals, and all the above. Just pick what works for you. Their break in oil is excellent. In fact Tony said out of all the break in oils he's used, Amsoil seats the rings in faster than any other from his experience. He has ways of monitoring that stuff on the dyno. I found that interesting. Not sure what type of honing processes or ring packages he was referring to as I'm sure that all makes a difference, but still interesting none the less.

There are other brands as well. The green stuff is also excellent. There are a few others.

As far as leaks, I feel it's an old wives tail. I just don't have that issue with synthetics.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Fact or Myth: Synthetic Oil Causes Leaks

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v04QEj84Rv4

Specific esters, called seal swell agents (SSAs) blended into the oil help remove chances of shrinking seals. SSAs are seal conditioners that clean the seal, and the PAOs lubricate the cleaned seal.


.

I chuckled a bit at the first part. Synthetics have been around a lot longer than the late 80's and early 90's. Pretty sure Amsoil was established in 72-ish. That tidbit aside, I agree.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by chiphead

OK, so let me be the one to pull the pin on the next oil topic grenade...

What synthetic oil has the correct additives for a performance engine with a flat tappet cam, or a severe duty rings?

Let's say we've got an application that needs the extra anti-scuff additives, and wants a synthetic in 10W30? Regular oil change intervals (not a short lived non-detergent race-type oil).

Lets take my application, which is a moderate HR cam with Total Seal AP stainless rings, with CR-33 facing? Engine is street/strip, gapped for a 200 hit of N2O. (The TS guy said the HFT oils will help ring life)

What's a hotrodder to use?

Red Line
https://www.redlineoil.com/10w30-motor-oil

Amsoil
https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-z-ro...motor-oil-zrt/

Drivenhttps://drivenracingoil.com/i-30497805-hr4-10w-30-synthetic-hot-rod-oil.html

SAhaeffershttps://www.schaefferoil.com/703-synthetic-plus.html

All of these are fine oils for just about anything you want to do.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by chiphead

OK, so let me be the one to pull the pin on the next oil topic grenade...

What synthetic oil has the correct additives for a performance engine with a flat tappet cam, or a severe duty rings?

Let's say we've got an application that needs the extra anti-scuff additives, and wants a synthetic in 10W30? Regular oil change intervals (not a short lived non-detergent race-type oil).

Lets take my application, which is a moderate HR cam with Total Seal AP stainless rings, with CR-33 facing? Engine is street/strip, gapped for a 200 hit of N2O. (The TS guy said the HFT oils will help ring life)

What's a hotrodder to use?

Pretty much any name brand synthetic, or even house brands like supertech that are made by warrent oil or exxon depending on location, are perfectly fine for hyd roller engines, all modern oils have anti wear additives, zddp is up around 900-1000ppm as well as other additives that will protect most any FT cam or hyd roller that doesnt need high amounts of zddp. The other top level oils mentioned are great too but normal oils like valvoline, mobil1, penzoil, havoline etc are excellent oils too. Personally I run valvoline synthetic 10/30 in my 500+hp 467 stroker whenever I can but have no problem using other brands.

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Gach

The reason, some engine builders don’t recommend running synthetic oil on or in a street car, is because The synthetic oil is more prone to gasket leaks, how true I don’t know, I do know if you’ve been running regular engine oil and switch over to synthetic people would develop oil leaks. For some reason the gaskets no longer seal as good. I’ve seen this happen so the builders air on the side of caution.

Have some run synthetic on a new build and not have issues probably. Is it the end all to be all, I guess it’s all in what you buy into. Guys looking for all out hp big rpm motors choose it for any hp gain. Or hopefully longevity of the parts. I just wouldn’t run it in a streetcar or street strip car, thats just me.

That is not true based on everything Ive read over the years as well as what my builder who builds all kinds of high HP race engines of all makes says, the main reason some builders dont like synthetic oil for FT cams is its "too slippery" and wont let the lifters rotate on the cam sometimes, that is what will void certain builders warranty as mentioned by the OP earlier.

Synthetic oil will not cause gasket leaks if the gaskets are new or in good shape. The only leak issue synthetic can cause is on a older high mile engine it can clean the internals of the engine better than normal oil & expose leaks from areas that were gunked up & now clean or it can find compromised or failed gaskets better than normal oil & have seepage or leaks.... but synthetic in itself does not cause leaks, but can be prone to leakage on some older engines. I run full synthetic in my E-head stroker and have no leaks at the pan or main seal after years of street & strip use. Also run it in my daily driver toyota 4runner with 150k+ miles, but modern toyotas have far better gasket/sealing than classic v-8's.

[Gach]

Well the op engine builder told him if he used the synthetic oil, it would void his warranty. So evidently he’s had some bad experiences with it.

[Formulajones]

Yeah that's about the strangest thing I've ever heard.

[Gach]

Well I’ve heard it more the once, it goes to engine builders past experience with synthetic oil‘s. I think because gasket seal issues on new builds, whether it’s a real issue or not. Definitely if you’ve been running a non-synthetic then switch over to synthetic had it happen to me and I didn’t listen when I was told not to. So understandable why some will void warrant.

[jhein]

My builder recommended Driven synthetic 15w40 for my street engine. But, I have a HR not a HFT cam. So far, at around 1800 miles or so (can't remember exactly), still no leaks.

As far as synthetic oil "causing" a leak, to me that seems tricky. If you had a motor that was not leaking, and you did something to it that resulted in a leak, then did that cause the leak? I think so. Even if the engine had some broken down gaskets and seals that were not leaking with mineral oil that "system" was working. Now you change an element of that system, and it leaks. Doesn't mean that it caused the seal or gasket problems but it turns a non-leaking engine into a leaking engine.

What I have heard said elsewhere is that if you have a motor that started it's life with mineral oil, and you change to synthetic (even in a new-ish, clean, healthy motor), it will leak. I think that's BS. If the engine is new and seals/gaskets are all good, then I don't think it matters. An old engine that's another story.

[78w72]

Well the OP engine builder most likely meant to not use synthetic with his FT lifters, not void the warranty because it causes leaks on a new engine.

I have switched from conventional to synthetic oil countless times with no leaks... unless a gasket was bad or other problem with a seal. Have also switched back & forth between the 2, both types of oil are compatible with each other and can alternate between the 2. Synthetic blend oils are a combo of regular & synthetic.

Cant speak for other builders, just that Ive never heard about voiding a warranty on a rebuilt engine related to leaks from synthetic oil. Some say or said in the past synthetic oil was bad for FT cams & lifters because what I mentioned above, but today there are numerous brands of synthetic oils geared towards hot rods & classics with FT cams. I have used & use full synthetic or blends in a FT cam pontiac v8 and other engines with no problems so hard to say whats right or wrong in that regard.

[Gach]

The bottom line is he’s doing the right thing, abiding by his engine builder wishes . I don’t think it’s up to us to criticize his engine builders choice.

[Dragncar]

Ita all c3@p, the "builder" not warrantying a engine is a builder stuck in the past. I agree, break in the engine with conventional break in oil.
And run it for a good long while on mineral oil. Break the cam in, change the mineral oil with more mineral oil and run it for awhile.
But then, if the owner wants to put the best synthetic in his engine he can find, so be it.
Synthetic is a "little" more leak prone. I also agree, I would not put it in a old school high mileage engine.
Thing is, a synthetic 10-30 will have more film strength at operating temp than a conventional 10-40.
Its significantly better in every way.
Its in my 95K Tundra and my 140K Volvo. No leaks.
But my 280K Honda gets 30 WT. It does not leak but uses a little oil.
Builders ? Some are modern, some are stuck in the past.
Kinda like racers who still use conventional, won't use ported rings-pistons and wont use a vacuum pump.

Kinda stuck with the warranty thing. But after its over I would run the oil I want to.
Brand ? Its a personal preference thing. Lots of good oils out there.

[Gach]

I applaud 64speed, for listening to his engine builder. It would be like me telling my machine shop of over 30 years. Who by the way set the A/S National record and later Nikki setting B/S National record. Dude you’ve got to get your self educated and get with the times..LOL

[Dragncar]

I talked to a Shaeffers tech guy today and asked him about cold starts. I have used Lucas in my oils specially for cold starts as these engines sit for long periods of time. He does not recommend Lucas and says its just a thickener, which it does thicken the oil.
Their Micron Molly additive makes their oil stick to metal for the cold start issue.
Their racing oil has a lot of the zinc phosphorus and Micron Molly in it, enough to ruin your emissions stuff in a new car.
But its not a non detergent oil either.
They do not advertise, a word of mouth thing for them and they are the oldest North American oil company. Lots of industrial stuff.

[tom s]

I use what ever my engine builder wants for breakin.After break in it gets a filter change and Mobil1 10-30 goes in if a roller engine.If HFT break in comes out filter change and 10-30 Dyno oil goes in with a 1/2 bottle of EOS.Works for me and the builder can kiss my ass when it’s mine.Tom