[PAUL K]

The NW has a lot of port taper compared to the T2. It also has shorter runners. One of three things will happen when compared to the T2;

1 the car will go faster

2 the car will go slower

3 the car will run the same

[i82much]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

The NW has a lot of port taper compared to the T2. It also has shorter runners. One of three things will happen when compared to the T2;

1 the car will go faster

2 the car will go slower

3 the car will run the same

the magic 8 ball has spoken!

[78w72]

Originally Posted by Johnny406

My RPM limited HFT cammed car picked up going from the Northwind to the TKII. It picked up even more going from the TKII to the ported HSD. I would bet the opposite would happen with your combo and that you will pick up .2+

Was that on the 463 in the 78 T/A? What is the ported HSD intake, a real HSD or the tomahawk that was cast after a SD ported HSD? Just curious which it was since I have a tomahawk I was considering trying vs the SD ported 71 HO intake Im running now on a 4.25 467.

[Skip Fix]

Here is a comprehensive intake height comparison
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=intake+height

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by i82much

how does a smaller engine running at a higher RPM react differently to plenum size than a bigger engine at a lower RPM?

If we have two 600 HP engines, say a 455 peaking at 6000 RPM and a 535 peaking at 5400 RPM, does the 535 see a benefit going to a bigger plenum that the 455 does not see? And if so, why?

I am not answering your question, just looking at your question a little differently. At 100% VE a 535 @ 5400 RPM will want the same mass air flow as the 455 @ 6349 RPM. Now they will only produce the same HP if they can both produce the same BSAC numbers

Stan

[Skip Fix]

Combo in the 78 TA now dyno'd identical with a SD modified HSD (pattern for Tomahawk) as my fairly ported T2. 525 HP conservative dyno 550-575 HP based on weight/mph

[ta man]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

The NW has a lot of port taper compared to the T2. It also has shorter runners. One of three things will happen when compared to the T2;

1 the car will go faster

2 the car will go slower

3 the car will run the same

Maybe all three.. higher mph,slower 60 foot and same et

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

I am not answering your question, just looking at your question a little differently. At 100% VE a 535 @ 5400 RPM will want the same mass air flow as the 455 @ 6349 RPM. Now they will only produce the same HP if they can both produce the same BSAC numbers

Stan

Thanks Stan. I understand that part. What i don't understand is that there seems to be a theory that a bigger engine wants a bigger plenum. But what I don't understand is why the plenum cares whether it is a big engine sucking slowly on it or a small engine sucking quickly on it, if that makes any sense.

I'm sure there is a more artful way to phrase that concept but it's not coming to me at the moment

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by ta man

Maybe all three.. higher mph,slower 60 foot and same et

Definetly that or possibly something else.

But seriously IMO if you find a gain it won't be much. If you can borrow a NW or find a deal on one it'd be fun to try. If your paying full retail plus shipping I'd do something else with your money.

We tested a NW against an RPM on a 630 HP engine. Maybe that guy will chime in. I don't recall the numbers but the RPM definetly looked better for a heavy street car.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by i82much

Thanks Stan. I understand that part. What i don't understand is that there seems to be a theory that a bigger engine wants a bigger plenum. But what I don't understand is why the plenum cares whether it is a big engine sucking slowly on it or a small engine sucking quickly on it, if that makes any sense.

I'm sure there is a more artful way to phrase that concept but it's not coming to me at the moment

I can not say about plenum size, but I can say about cylinder head flow and carb size. My software produces these same results, but more people know Larry's software, so I am showing those results.

Stan

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

I can not say about plenum size, but I can say about cylinder head flow and carb size. My software produces these same results, but more people know Larry's software, so I am showing those results.

Stan

That's interesting, so it looks like you can make 600 hp with a 275 cfm head assuming you use a really long duration cam, if I am reading that right.

[Skip Fix]

Originally Posted by ta man

Maybe all three.. higher mph,slower 60 foot and same et

What my RAIV 400 did when I swapped on a T1!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by i82much

That's interesting, so it looks like you can make 600 hp with a 275 cfm head assuming you use a really long duration cam, if I am reading that right.

No. I read in an old input file I had for a 535 @ 7400 RPM and didn't optimize the cam for these engines. Pipe Max works differently and doen't use the cam to come up with the HP number. But yes it is saying for the best build you can make about 2.2 HP per 1 cfm of cylinder head air flow.

Stan

[i82much]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

No. I read in an old input file I had for a 535 @ 7400 RPM and didn't optimize the cam for these engines. Pipe Max works differently and doen't use the cam to come up with the HP number. But yes it is saying for the best build you can make about 2.2 HP per 1 cfm of cylinder head air flow.

Stan

gotcha, thanks!

[Gach]

There’s all kinds of software out there, but the real software is the guys out there who make the real hp. The amateur software builders can only surmise. How it all works.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by i82much

That's interesting, so it looks like you can make 600 hp with a 275 cfm head assuming you use a really long duration cam, if I am reading that right.

One could make 600 HP with a stock iron head that flows 220 cfm or at least come darn close.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Gach

There’s all kinds of software out there, but the real software is the guys out there who make the real hp. The amateur software builders can only surmise. How it all works.

Maybe you should call Larry Meaux up and tell him that about his software. Oh wait he has a flow bench and a dyno.

Stan

[Gach]

The bottom line on this whole intake deal is really very simple, when you think about it. Lets say the head flows ( just as example ) 325 cfm now you bolt that intake up and with the intake bolted up, and flowed through the intake it drops 20-25 cfm, so actually you really only have a 295-300 cfm head. So how much of a lost that head is seeing with a Torker 2 vs the Northwind. So in others words and this is a known fact between the best out there. And I mean real numbers. A 30 cfm gain access the board is worth 10% increase in hp.

The other thing asked yourself why a Northwind needs a 1” spacer to see any real hp gain. It’s called plenum area. For same reason why a tunnel ram makes more hp. The same goes for runner length. It’ll be really interesting if he makes the change to see what he picks up if any.

There’s so much that comes into play track conditions, perfect weather.. track elevations.

[Gach]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Maybe you should call Larry Meaux up and tell him that about his software. Oh wait he has a flow bench and a dyno.

Stan

LOL… I have his software, he’s not in amateur software category. Forget it Stan it’s way over your head

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Gach

The bottom line on this whole intake deal is really very simple, when you think about it. Lets say the head flows ( just as example ) 325 cfm now you bolt that intake up and with the intake bolted up, and flowed through the intake it drops 20-25 cfm, so actually you really only have a 295-300 cfm head. So how much of a lost that head is seeing with a Torker 2 vs the Northwind. So in others words and this is a known fact between the best out there. And I mean real numbers. A 30 cfm gain access the board is worth 10% increase in hp.

The other thing asked yourself why a Northwind needs a 1” spacer to see any real hp gain. It’s called plenum area. For same reason why a tunnel ram makes more hp. The same goes for runner length. It’ll be really interesting if he makes the change to see what he picks up if any.

There’s so much that comes into play track conditions, perfect weather.. track elevations.

Maybe, maybe not. There are some intakes which when flowed with the head you will see a flow increase with the spacer added. It a few cases it my also change the swirl some.

Stan

Stan