[Ben M.]

So, my wife has a 2015 Dodge Charger with the 6 cylinder in it. It had a very slight ticking in it when new that the salesman and several techs at the dealership claimed were "normal engine breaking-in sounds." Over the last few months the tickings got louder and louder until I finally made the dealership look at it. The service writer took one listen and said "that's a failing lifter, we need to fix that ASAP and it'll be covered under powertrain warranty" which confirms my suspicions and gives me relief as the previous service writer wasn't interested in looking at it.

Car gets dropped off Monday night and we get it back yesterday. Multiple lifter and camshaft lobe failures. Not completely unexpected, they replaced all 4 cams and 24 lifters and rockers, plus one ignition coil that broke. Completely free under warranty. At the dealership I get the paperwork and while they're out hunting for the car I start reading through their copy. The tech noted multiple collapsed lifters, damage to the cam, etc. He also noted "diff service needed" and "align." All right. Also... no mention of oil check or oil change. That concerns me as if I had damaged cam lobes and failed lifters that should result in trash in the engine oil and changing it should be something you'd want to do, right? I ask the service writer about it and he seems shocked, says he'd definitely want his oil changed and he'll go find the tech to understand what happens.

Comes back with the shop foreman as the tech has gone home. Foreman says "why would we change the oil? Chrysler won't pay for it, the service procedure doesn't call it out, there's no need." I say "so despite multiple failed lobes and the potential for metal in my oil damaging bearings there's no need to change the oil?" He says "we'll change it for you if you want but you gotta pay for it." Since I'm not going to get into an argument I let it go and don't push it. I ask if there's a break-in or if they just slapped them in and it's good to go. He says "drive it like you stole it man!" I then ask what the hand-written notes for "diff" and "align" mean and he says "your differential needs service" and "your tires are all worn out and you need an alignment." I ask if anyone was going to mention that to me (computer printout that I get has no mention, this is the 4th time I've found issues the tech notes that no one mentions to me, 2 potentially safety related) and the foreman says "wasn't on the job ticket, so nope." I thanked him for his time and that was that.

Am I out of line for feeling that they did the absolute bare minimum here? And that "you didn't specifically tell us to look for anything so we aren't going to tell you what we found not related to the job" sounds like a terrible way to do business if that note relates to bald\bad tires or failing brakes - especially since they have this giant sign about their "full vehicle inspection" that all cars at their dealership get. And while I know modern roller cams require little-to-no break-in, if it wiped several lobes and having to take half of the top end of the motor apart to repair it wouldn't changing the oil be SOP? And yeah, there was crap in the oil when I checked it when I got home so it's obviously getting an oil change.

Or am I just out of touch with how dealerships are these days and how modern cars are? My biggest concern is my wife (or anyone else not car savvy) going to get work done and not knowing the questions to ask or the things to look for and the service department having a "not our responsibility to tell you anything!" attitude.

If I'm wrong I'll be glad to understand why and continue to give these guys my warranty business. As it is I feel like it was somewhat half-assed with lazy explanations for not doing a thorough (in my opinion) job. But I could be more than wrong!

[RocktimusPryme]

Very slightly in their defense I can say that "by the book" is probably pushed on mechanics because it limits liability. Generally speaking as a mechanic if you followed the procedure nobody can get mad at you if something goes wrong.

Now, that being said Im shocked that follow on maintenance for the replacement of a major engine component wouldnt involve a fluid change. Especially when metal wear and tear could be involved. I think I might have asked to see the procedure.

[hopper146]

I've always had that experience at Dodge Last time was the last straw. I'll never set foot in a Dodge dealership again

[Ben M.]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I think I might have asked to see the procedure.

From the guy's body language I didn't think that pushing my luck and getting uppity was something that was going to win me friends here. I've been reading GM and Ford service manuals and procedures for 20 years and they don't always mention changing the oil after major service even though I know it's something we all do (and many dealers used to).

My wife loves the car though. I keep worrying I've got a time bomb waiting to go off just outside of warranty...

[Chief of the 60's]

As GM dealers say to their customers regarding piston slap noise, "that's acceptable to the industry". The problem is that the "industry" is not the one that makes the car payment.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

From the guy's body language I didn't think that pushing my luck and getting uppity was something that was going to win me friends here. I've been reading GM and Ford service manuals and procedures for 20 years and they don't always mention changing the oil after major service even though I know it's something we all do (and many dealers used to).

My wife loves the car though. I keep worrying I've got a time bomb waiting to go off just outside of warranty...

I don’t know how new it is since you don’t mention it. But dodges new for real lifetime warranty is the best in the business. It’s ultimately why I bought a ram. It doesn’t transfer if you sell it like a normal factory warranty. But it’s powertrain or better for life depending on the one you get.

I got the middle one that covers drivetrain and suspension. It got thrown in to sweeten the deal in my case so I didn’t have to pay for it.

I mention this because my buddy who was the salesman in my case said that you can go back and purchase the warranty after the fact. You just can’t add it to financing at that point. You have to pay the whole thing in cash. Something like $2kish I think.

If your wife really loves the car, and might want to drive it for a good long while? Maybe not a bad thing to look into if your worried about it blowing up outside warranty.


And maybe I’m just used to much more structured aircraft manuals. Line by line and the. At the end all the follow on procedures and operational checks necessary.

[GT182]

Ben, let it go with them not doing an oil change. Then when the engine lets loose they'll have to replace it at their cost. As he said..."Drive it like you stole it." And I would, just to blow the engine. But do it before the warranty expires. Sounds harsh I know, but they're the ones that want it to happen. And they're hoping it happens after the warranty expires so the replacement cost is on you.

Do not have the oil changed by anyone.... not even you.

[694.1]

You failed to mention what 3rd world country this service was in.

[64speed]

I have a 2013 charger with the big full feature touchscreen in the dash. A month after owning it the thing went out and as you know it controls ac and seat heaters and everything. I took it to dealer they told me no problem they would replace it and it would take three days. Went to pick it up and it worked fine but I was suspicious because our iPhones were still programmed to the radio. Well two days later it does the same thing so I took it to the dodge dealership one town over and they take it out while I wait. Service manager comes out and tells me it’s the original radio and it’s never been replaced. I call dodge corporate and they confirm that our local dodge place had submitted a 2800 dollar warranty repair invoice to dodge for warranty service on the touch screen. I raised hell and dodge customer service gave me 20 free synthetic oil changes and put the original dealers ass in a sling. It’s kind of a pain but I drive one town over to get my car serviced now. Call dodge customer care. I am sure you’ll get your oil changed

[GT182]

There's a lot of new car dealers that will rip off billing their manufacturer with warranty work that was never done.

[Chris65LeMans]

X 2. If it were me, I’d have insisted that they change the oil. It’s not like it costs them much.

You should definitely try a different dealer. I’m not sure which dealer I’d prefer - the one who tries to sell me useless stuff, or the one who doesn’t push stuff I do need.

[brad900]

Under warranty work the dealer is only going to do what the manufacture says to do & pays for. My company recommends to the customer if something like the oil should be replaced after a job like this but it will be customer pay

[dataway]

I've had good luck contacting the manufacturer directly.

Back in 2002, brand new GMC 6 months old and the wipers self destructed because they were frozen to the windshield. Brought it in to the dealer where I bought, told the service manager, he said "Was there ice on the windshield?" I was like ... uhh.. yeah, it's Feb in upstate NY. Well then, he said, it's not covered under warranty. And would be something like $250 fix.

I politely walked out, went home and emailed GM. Asked them if it's normal to sell vehicles in upstate NY with wipers that self destruct when they freeze. Gave them my info and the dealer. That same afternoon I got a phone call from that same service manager who said bring it right in and we will fix it under warranty.

Modern wipers have a torque limiting motor that is not supposed to try to force froze wipers and destroy the drive mechanism ... evidently that was not working on mine.

[goatless]

Originally Posted by Ben M.

I keep worrying I've got a time bomb waiting to go off just outside of warranty...

I don't care how much your wife loves the car- I'd have that thing up for sale ASAP!

[mgarblik]

I am not wishing to promote gloom and doom to your unfortunate engine failure. But if your wife really likes the car and you intend to keep it for the long haul, I would recommend the following. You can fight over the oil changes with the dealer and you may get some satisfaction. But lets think about this repair a little. If there were multiple camshaft lobe failures, that means the cam shafts were ground down. The cams on those engines are hollow steel tubes with very hard powdered metal cam lobes pressed on the tube. This means that tiny bits of very hard metal are literally everywhere in the engine, in every oil passage and the favorite this paste loves to collect is in the oil rings. This paste really can't be easily removed. Once the damage was discovered, I would have pushed for a complete engine replacement because of this. With the current situation, I would recommend a minimum of 4 oil changes. One every 500 miles. That car takes 0W-20 oil, which works to your advantage because it's so thin. But that engine uses an oil filter that is in the very top of the engine, so the grit and metal may not end up in the housing. I would do the oil change myself and rub your finger around in the housing after you remove the element. If you feel grit in the housing, that's not good, of course. That engine has oil circuits that are really tiny for the variable camshaft timing on all 4 cams and the 2-stage oil pump. Honestly, I am surprised they didn't authorize a long block or complete engine replacement for your situation. I am a former Chrysler training instructor as well as GM, and hate to hear this. Keep an eye on the "check engine" light. Any codes related to camshaft phasers, camshaft timing solenoids, 2-stage oil pump issues, misfires, can all be related to crap in the oil. The 3.6L Pentistar engine has some issues early on, dropping valve seats, porous castings, sticking valve guides, but they were mostly fixed by 2012. My son in law has a 2015 Charger with that engine and it's been perfect so far. Has almost 100K on it. PM me with an update if you wish, I will help you if I can.

I just reread your whole initial post. For your peace of mind, I would go back to the dealer and insist that they let you look at the 4 camshafts. If the lobes were indeed rounded off, producing metal paste, the engine will likely have future damage. If the situation was only collapsed lifters, a few oil changes and you may be OK. Metal paste in the engine is key.

[Chief of the 60's]

Do you want to get even with them? Tell them you want to trade it in and see what they say about the noise now.

[Ben M.]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'm not interested in fighting the dealer for an oil change (free or otherwise, I've got free coupons from them over their last service fiasco with us) as that is besides the point and never was the main issue. It just seems that as mgarblik says, with a cam failure it's going to be a potential long-haul issue that won't necessarily creep up today, but in another 25-45k miles just in time for the factory warranty to be nearing its end and a dealer\Dodge to argue that they aren't responsible for any problems. And that they didn't seem interested in doing due diligence to ensure this won't be a future problem (ie: change the oil) makes me concerned about if this is "just the way it is" with dealers\shops these days or if I have a reason to be upset.

I expect this attitude from certain shops in my experience, just not expecting a dealership associated with a major manufacturer trying to improve its image to behave like this. But then GM did it to my parents back in the day, so it's not a new thing! I've flushed many a neglected engine and checked for particles\trash so it won't be the first time for me. It will be the newest car though ;-)

[Chief of the 60's]

I know they had rocker arm shaft issues on the 3.5 but I also know that they have changed their engine design since then. Did you look into any recalls or TSB's on the engine that is in your car? I know dealers will deny knowing of an issue when there may be an ongoing recall or TSB.

[Ben M.]

My research has not yielded any TSB or recall situation, but there do seem to be a vocal group of people experiencing problems similar to it (mostly on the hemi v8 engine, but occasionally the v6). Dodge has owned up to it and fixed most people’s cars under warranty but as stated previously with GM’s piston slap issue, no recall or major effort to fix them preemptively.

[77 Canamman]

While the piston slap issue is annoying, and inexcuseable, the noise in my experience goes away in less than a minute after a cold start. Also, it does not pose any adverse long term effects.

What is most troubling about some late model GM AFM engines is the oil usage. Some of those are using a quart every 1000 miles! GM's crappy guidance is 1 qt. every 2000 miles is normal...