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Old 11-30-2022, 03:15 PM
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Can't wait for your guy's info on the tranny and the flow #'s
Thanks Guy's. I think next year I'll try a set of the CNC Heads

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Old 11-30-2022, 04:47 PM
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This is for the non ported sets.
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Old 11-30-2022, 05:00 PM
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With these being a low budget head, why would one assume that the cnc port would be any good?

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Old 12-01-2022, 09:19 AM
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I'll take a guess.... Because everyone likes a bargain and it would be really, really nice if they have a Kaase quality port job... Think about how good of a deal that would be!

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Old 12-01-2022, 09:33 AM
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I'm sure Speedmaster got the best porter to design a port.
Even if they found a good port to steal/copy why would one think the copy machine work would be good? Not all valve jobs are good and not all cnc programs are good.

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Old 12-01-2022, 09:52 AM
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See post #48 & #52

It would be nice if it's a top shelf program originally done by a person that has access to a flow bench.

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Old 12-01-2022, 10:48 AM
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I have a bare set and they definitely need work for a N/A perspective. I think Paul did a review last year and his comments match what I am seeing. Short turn issues, core shift, valve seat concerns, etc.
This isn’t a Pontiac only issue. There are videos out there from well known head porters that review other brand SM heads and they have the same/similar issues. The ironic thing is there also videos from the same people review big name head makers and they have some of the same issues too.
What ever head you choose be sure to have a reputable head expert look at them before you put them on, just my $.02.

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Old 12-01-2022, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowbird View Post
With these being a low budget head, why would one assume that the cnc port would be any good?
For me they would be for a "throw down" extra part motor-and probably flow better and be way lighter than the ported 6X heads I had originally planned-and all my extra headers are round port.


God knows over the years I've blown more than $1500 on parts that did not work!

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Old 12-01-2022, 06:49 PM
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Here’s my fear of the Speedmaster heads, most of us buy them, usually 3-4-5 months down road, before their into use. Maybe sooner who knows. Yeah definitely can have them check out before their installed. They’ve had an issue with quality control, yeah you can flow them, clean them up, check the guides, make sure the springs are good for your Application. This is only to make people think. But here’s what almost never gets checked. Of course unless the seats are removed.

What happens down the road when you finally get it running 4-5 mouth’s later, all of a sudden, you have a water leak and after banging your head against the wall, trying to find it, going through the process of elimination, well we know it’s not head gasket and after all avenues has been exploited, you find out, it’s leaking water around the seats. That can’t be fixed. Or you had the head for 7-8 months and finally put them to use.

This has happen, first thing I would do is have those heads pressure tested. The other thing no one has question is what’s the quality of the aluminum ? Do the heads become soft after miles or passes. There is tons of videos of other makes, other then Pontiac hobby. There has been allot of issues.

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Old 12-01-2022, 07:14 PM
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Its easy for us in this odd little Pontiac cocoon to get tunnel vision, but like you said there is data from the other makes. And yeah while you can for sure find horror stories if you go looking, I’m sure plenty of people are happy too. Probably way more than are upset. I know the BBC world loves Promaxxx heads.

Do I wish I could buy an AFR casting for a Pontiac at an SBC price point. Sure. But it’s not in the cards.

At the end of the day I’ll just never complain about having more options.

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  #71  
Old 12-01-2022, 07:21 PM
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Default Speedmaster heads

Wow what a bunch of nay-sayers, I've been running them for two years
now with out a problem on a 464 speedmaster head pump gas that runs
low 6.90-6.91 at 102. mph in the 1/8 with a ton of street driving.
We went to a street race 60 miles one way, towed the car there.
Had to drive it back on the slicks becacause another friends regular car
broke down less than a mile from where we raced at. So we took Marks car
off the trailer and put Jerry's car on the and headed home.Gets good
milage too. What I'm ranting is that there dam good heads trust them.
And at a good price.

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Old 12-01-2022, 07:37 PM
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My machine shop is pretty picky.When I got my heads last year,they went right to him.The valve job sucked,he pressure tested,was not crazy about the springs as if I remember they coil bound at .900.Will change them when I use them this year.FWIW

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Old 12-01-2022, 08:27 PM
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I'm happy to have options also. But the fact of the matter is Speedmaster's fully machined heads are mediocre at best. The CNC work looks like a student's class project that they would be lucky to get a C grade with. The thin spot in the intake bowl that can affect the valve seat press is enough by itself to keep these heads out of the "darn good" category. That limits their horsepower potential and if you push the envelope you'll have a good chance of being an Internet horror story just like the many that are already out there. They're not a bad head especially if your goals are in the 500-600 horsepower range, you don't mind straightenging them out and considering the Holiday price. But they are far from great and their machine work is orderline crap.

If the heads were sold at full retail I'm confident their sales numbers would be quite different along with folks opinions of them. The half dozen sets of heads we've worked on all parallel my comments in this thread

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...errerid=134156

Anyone remember the bargain Fluidampners that were sold about fifteen years ago that had a habit flying off the crankshafts?

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Old 12-01-2022, 11:11 PM
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I think ~500 plus or minus 50 would be 80% of the market though. So that’s an important distinction. They are going to be fine for a large portion of the market.

Slap an out of the box set on a 557 block and make the max of that blocks power anyway is a pretty solid deal for the weekend warrior. The longer I’ve been in the hobby the more I have slid into the “don’t get it perfect, just get it running” category. I say that as someone who looks at my motor that made 590 HP and is considering a cam and intake swap. I should take my own advice more.

I think it’s easy to loose sight that most of us even in the street section are not the average motor enthusiast consumer. I was at a swap meet last week looking down my nose at like 50% of the crowd who go in and mostly walk out with a reproduction knock off sign and maybe a new in box Chinese HEI. It’s like the equivalent of a dude who orders his steak medium well in Ruth’s Chris. But then I remind myself that the hobby dies without those guys and it’s not my place to judge them or what they consider fun.

Out of all the classic cars on the road how many visit the drag strip even once a year? Of those how many really really try to make them faster? An out of the box set of mediocre heads, a cheap HEI that has way too much vacuum advance, and an out of the box vacuum secondary holley avenger that is probably too rich is going to make most people happy. It starts with no problem and does good burnouts on rock hard white letter BFGs.

I also understand that for those of you who’s careers are the industry don’t want to put your name on a mediocre product. Even if that’s what the customer would be fine with. So I guess I see both sides of that coin.
.

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Last edited by RocktimusPryme; 12-01-2022 at 11:36 PM.
  #75  
Old 12-02-2022, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme View Post
I think ~500 plus or minus 50 would be 80% of the market though. So that’s an important distinction. They are going to be fine for a large portion of the market.

Slap an out of the box set on a 557 block and make the max of that blocks power anyway is a pretty solid deal for the weekend warrior. The longer I’ve been in the hobby the more I have slid into the “don’t get it perfect, just get it running” category. I say that as someone who looks at my motor that made 590 HP and is considering a cam and intake swap. I should take my own advice more.

I think it’s easy to loose sight that most of us even in the street section are not the average motor enthusiast consumer. I was at a swap meet last week looking down my nose at like 50% of the crowd who go in and mostly walk out with a reproduction knock off sign and maybe a new in box Chinese HEI. It’s like the equivalent of a dude who orders his steak medium well in Ruth’s Chris. But then I remind myself that the hobby dies without those guys and it’s not my place to judge them or what they consider fun.

Out of all the classic cars on the road how many visit the drag strip even once a year? Of those how many really really try to make them faster? An out of the box set of mediocre heads, a cheap HEI that has way too much vacuum advance, and an out of the box vacuum secondary holley avenger that is probably too rich is going to make most people happy. It starts with no problem and does good burnouts on rock hard white letter BFGs.
.
I agree with you a 100%. But how many guys drop out of this hobby when their bargain Fluidamper blasts a hole in the hood of their freshly painted Hot Rod and the crank breaks in two pieces wiping out their freshly convertered 5.3 junkyard block with Speedmaster heads? I could be wrong, but most of the folks on this Website seem to have been in the car hobby for quit a while. I'm guessing they are true car enthusiasts that have it in their blood. A lot of folks read threads and try to learn. They may be around the car hobby for a short time or a life time. I feel knowledge is power and the more you know the better your odds are for success. Hopefully someone will learn the the Chinese distributors have a much better chance for getting you a tow truck ride home than the old GM 990 module. That knowledge might save them a divorce.

A fellow I've known since High School has been a gear head his entire life. He works hard but doesn't have a bunch of extra money for his Hot Rod. He has a family he puts first and spends what he can to go fast. He ended up buying a pair of heads that he thought were new GM LS3 heads. He dropped them off to have me go through them. These were the crappiest heads I've ever seen. He had read more than once on the Interenet that they were great heads and guys have made big power and never had an issue (sound familiar?) I happened to come across a You-tube video titled "World's worst LS head" or something to that effect. I watch it and the guy is reviewing the same POS heads that I just fixed and they had the same exact problems. I really doubt this company only messed up these two pairs of heads and got the rest correct. I'm betting the guys on the Internet that critiqued them as "great heads" didn't know any better.... It's too bad someone didn't "cowboy up" the real information on the LS sights in regards to those heads, I know of atleast two guys that are sorry they bought them.

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Old 12-02-2022, 12:41 AM
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My brother fits in that category. After going through two hydraulic roller, what a mess. Guess what he just bought BBC Chevy Nova. He’s been a big Butler guy for years. I give Butler a lot of credit, in what they have to deal with aftermarket products. The jury is still out on the Speedmaster heads, quality wise. Really how many guys have bought them past 2 years, ok so couple have bolted them on. Seem to run ok, but I notice there’s been couple of sets of Speedmaster heads for sale lately. I’m just worried what we’re going to be hearing in five or six years down the road.

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Old 12-03-2022, 09:53 AM
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Anyone have an idea of what metal is used for the seats? Also, I added a pic of the throat area and the lip that is there from the core shift. I imagine that could be filled with epoxy to smooth it out.
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Old 12-03-2022, 10:28 AM
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A closer pic. You can see the ledge/lip with the tool. It shows how the port throat is shifted to the left and the back of the seat is exposed in one spot.
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Old 12-03-2022, 10:56 AM
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Will that matter to the average street car?

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Old 12-03-2022, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
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Anyone have an idea of what metal is used for the seats? Also, I added a pic of the throat area and the lip that is there from the core shift. I imagine that could be filled with epoxy to smooth it out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo View Post
A closer pic. You can see the ledge/lip with the tool. It shows how the port throat is shifted to the left and the back of the seat is exposed in one spot.
That is the "issue" with these heads. Every set we've seen has that in the same port. If you grind the seat back to blend it into the port the seat may become weak and fall out (that is what the supplemental sheet explaining "porting these heads can cause the seats to fall out" is really referring too). You could smooth it with epoxy. The correct fix would be to pull the seat and weld it or you could live with it.

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