[Nobuddy]

The Edelbrock #7280 gaskets don't line up on Edelbrock heads either which seems really strange. But it is well described in their install docs so I guess it makes sense to someone. Maybe it was just cheaper to use an existing die.

[Steve C.]

Both the Edlebrock 7280 intake gasket and the FelPro 1233 intake have the same port opening size. 1.800" x 2.200"


.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

I didn't watch the video...

Its VERY hard to watch.
Was similar to watching and waiting for the grass to grow in February until its time to start the lawnmower in May.
At the 4 minute mark I was tired of it. And its an 18 minute video.
Forget it.

In 4 minutes time he didn't like the offset of the innermost intake ports.
And said no way possible they flowed anything close to 289cfm
The whole time all he showed was a head on a work bench displaying the exhaust side.
While talking about the intake port ?

Rocky Rotella flow tested the heads as cast.
We know who Rocky is.
Where is this guys flow test ?
He is purporting himself as a head porter - but can't flow test anything ?
Very impressive work , and sets the tone.

Click - Close

If anybody watched the whole thing and can add any value that was gained , just post that please.

[grandam1979]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Its VERY hard to watch.
Was similar to watching and waiting for the grass to grow in February until its time to start the lawnmower in May.
At the 4 minute mark I was tired of it. And its an 18 minute video.
Forget it.

In 4 minutes time he didn't like the offset of the innermost intake ports.
And said no way possible they flowed anything close to 289cfm
The whole time all he showed was a head on a work bench displaying the exhaust side.
While talking about the intake port ?

Rocky Rotella flow tested the heads as cast.
We know who Rocky is.
Where is this guys flow test ?
He is purporting himself as a head porter - but can't flow test anything ?
Very impressive work , and sets the tone.

Click - Close

If anybody watched the whole thing and can add any value that was gained , just post that please.

Did Rocky’s test the same as the one speedmaster has for non ported heads?

[grandam1979]

Sorry I missed Rocky’s numbers, https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1669841202

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by Nobuddy

The Edelbrock #7280 gaskets don't line up on Edelbrock heads either which seems really strange. But it is well described in their install docs so I guess it makes sense to someone. Maybe it was just cheaper to use an existing die.

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Both the Edlebrock 7280 intake gasket and the FelPro 1233 intake have the same port opening size. 1.800" x 2.200"

.

I think Nobuddy was pointing out that feature.
And the strange part of it being - why bother merchandizing an Edelbrock Intake gasket for their Edelbrock heads - without making the shoe to fit their own foot more properly..

They just copied the Felpro 1233 , and renamed it.

Maybe it was just to undercut Felpro by offering a cheaper version of the same.
But a missed opportunity for a custom fit shoe to the end user..
Was my take on that

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Its VERY hard to watch.
Was similar to watching and waiting for the grass to grow in February until its time to start the lawnmower in May.
At the 4 minute mark I was tired of it. And its an 18 minute video.
Forget it.

In 4 minutes time he didn't like the offset of the innermost intake ports.
And said no way possible they flowed anything close to 289cfm
The whole time all he showed was a head on a work bench displaying the exhaust side.
While talking about the intake port ?

Rocky Rotella flow tested the heads as cast.
We know who Rocky is.
Where is this guys flow test ?
He is purporting himself as a head porter - but can't flow test anything ?
Very impressive work , and sets the tone.

Click - Close

If anybody watched the whole thing and can add any value that was gained , just post that please.

I did watch the whole video. I don't own a set and have never seen a set other than pictures posted here. He did bring up some points I had questions about the heads from looking at the pictures posted here and some points about areas that I could not see because there was not picture of that area posted. He does show these areas and does point to what he calls problem areas.

Stan

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Originally Posted by grandam1979

Sorry I missed Rocky’s numbers, https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...1&d=1669841202

Yes , Rocky has a flow bench.
I'm not saying his is the latest or greatest or an end all laboratory standard.
The main value to his testing is he did as-cast SM head and as-cast E head the same day on the same machine.
For independent comparison purposes.

Afterwards - Randy R. used those results for marketing and informational purposes .
He is not SpeedMaster defacto , he has his own business selling parts and services.

I am not sure if SpeedMaster defacto has any of their own testing results published or claimed.
Most of the stuff people are quoting and referencing is from Randy - not SM..
He has gone to lengths to get us better info and testing on these heads.
Even cut one into pieces and done various material tests
He deserves credit for that

============================
sidetrack post below

They have shown very good results , but not perfect in every respect .
Perfect in every respect is high dollar today.
But its great for us to find and know where they might need more attention for the AVERAGE user.
And make it known to the group

If they flow over 250-260 (and they do) I don't care if the port isn't a perfect shape.
I don't care if they can't be world beaters
Most of the guys who bought these got them for $1200 pair - with complimentary valves and springs.

[grandam1979]

What I posted was from SM

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Cool .
But those numbers are from the tests that Rocky did.
Regurgitated.

And no harm or foul , at least they have something to use for an example.

[grandam1979]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

Cool .
But those numbers are from the tests that Rocky did.
Regurgitated.

And no harm or foul , at least they have something to use for an example.

So you consider those to be good numbers on the heads? It would actually be nice for him to do a ported set on the same equipment for comparison.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

Yes I do consider those numbers to be acceptable representatives.
With a foot note that every bench will supply a different set of peak numbers - but they should all be within a predictable range - between the 2 types of heads tested back-to-back.

In other words , someone else's bench might read 280 or 285 or 290 on the SM.
But not WAY different.
And the back-to-back tests have a likewise conclusion.
No big winner and no big loser , but in favor of the SM overall.

Maybe Randy R. / GoatzillaRacing will clue us in about where the CNC heads will be flowed.
Hopefully on Rocky's bench again.
I'm sure that is probably his first choice , to keep the apples in the same basket.

Maybe we could put in a request to re-test the as-cast against the CNC.
Just to see the baseline repeated and the spread fully documented on the same day / same machine.

[Stan Weiss]

Does anyone know what the port volume - cc'c are for either the as cast head or the CNC head?

Stan

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

The intake port cc's listed on the actual SM website is 215cc
But it was the same number listed for as-cast ,, as the CNC (both the same)
So that is probably the as-cast parameter - Not CNC

[Stan Weiss]

That is interesting. 215ccs is what Edelbrock says their as cast head is.

Stan

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

They mostly tried to copy an E head . A proven commodity.
And bring it to market at less cost.

Probably some variances here and there.
Seems like Randy cc'd everything in the other thread when they first came out.
But I don't remember those results.
Must have been in acceptable range because I don't remember any big Ah-Ha's being lashed out.

Considering casting flaws from one head to another could vary (in hindsight now)
We don't know for sure that if they were to test 6 units of each type head - if they would all test the exact same on the same day. (6 SM's and 6 E's)

But they tested so relatively close , it would about have to be a wash at the end of the day.
No big loser or big winner.
I would expect the SM to edge out on the biggest average number , but wouldn't be disappointed if it turned out the opposite somehow on a best of 6 shootout.
As long as they were right on the doorstep.

Just trying to be fair.
That is giving the real benefit of a doubt , to any doubters , in hindsight.

E heads can be made to do some incredible things by Pontiac racers.
I think the EHTTFMF bumper stickers are what has kept their cost up .

[PAUL K]

Anyone figure out how to flow one of the CNC ported heads? ..... I know Speedmaster hasn't.

[Skip Fix]

Paul my buddy is rearranging his garage and we will flow mine once he gets set back up. Also just got a bunch of valve cutters so we can put a better valve job and back cut the valves. He has a Superflow 110 and a set of the 'pass around calibration plates so we can get good numbers. his bench got similar numbers on my High ports as Dan Barton did here and we sent a head to Dwayne porter up east too. he is a Mopar guy and Dwayne does some Mopar stuff but also did some other High port Pontiac heads.

[Baron Von Zeppelin]

According to speedo they should flow "about" the same as the As-Cast heads.
Same cc runner volume size listed for both variants.
That's gotta be a huge boost to potential consumer appeal.

They will probably wait and just piggyback on Randy's supplied data again.
I would trust that more anyway , just because.... well just because.

If they really wanted to win us over as much as possible ,
they would flow all the ports on each side and disclose all the data. As-Cast
And do the E Heads in the same way. As-Cast
That would be getting down into the real nitty gritty.

What is an acceptable flow balance variation from cylinder to cylinder Paul ?
5% ?

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Baron Von Zeppelin

According to speedo they should flow "about" the same as the As-Cast heads.
Same cc runner volume size listed for both variants.
That's gotta be a huge boost to potential consumer appeal.

They will probably wait and just piggyback on Randy's supplied data again.
I would trust that more anyway , just because.... well just because.

If they really wanted to win us over as much as possible ,
they would flow all the ports on each side and disclose all the data. As-Cast
And do the E Heads in the same way. As-Cast
That would be getting down into the real nitty gritty.

What is an acceptable flow balance variation from cylinder to cylinder Paul ?
5% ?

Our CNC ported heads flow within .015% percent. Our hand ported race heads are with .02%. I'd think 5% is an acceptable number for any street car as you will see bigger differences in the manifold runners.

Our CNC Edelbrock round port program (which I posted pictures of a few pages back) flows a tick over 350 cfm with a 2.11 valve. The port opening is almost identical to the CNC Speedmaster head. It's capable of producing over 800 horsepower... So the SM port opening seems to be plenty big.

I can't understand how a CNC program was developed without any flow numbers.... It makes no sense.

This is a thread I posted on the S/M heads

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...errerid=134156

Few things that folks should keep in mind

The intake ports on the SM heads have a casting flaw in one of the inward ports. It limits the potential of these heads. SM's solution to fixing this issue, is to include a warning notice that the seat might fall out if the head is ported.... THIS is most likely the reason the bowls don't clean up with their CNC program... It's also concerning as to how much press fit this valve seat will have if the casting has core shift in the wrong direction.

I'm curious if folks interest would be different if these heads are purchased at full retail. They definetly seem appealing at the black Friday sale price. At full retail and most likely needing to switch headers or manifolds from d-port to round is the KRE or Edelbrocks a better choice.