[jhein]

I recently made contact with one of the previous owners of my car. It was the second owner who was the one who restored it. I got some interesting information but still lots of unknowns.

He bought the car in 2001 from the original owner. According to PHS the car was purchased from a dealer in MA. The story is that the original owner had a minor collision in 1974 with damage to the right rear quarter and the car was taken off the road. For some reason, the owner decided to have it repaired by a local high school body shop program. The repair was reportedly poor quality and the car sat for decades at the owners home, not driven. At some point, it lost it's original motor. Then in 2001 it came up for sale. The car was stil in MA.

The guy that restored it bought it then in 2001 and eventually restored it in 2012. He said it had no rust. He had to repair the rear quarter again, correctly. Then it sat in storage until 2016 when it was sold at a Mecim auction to the guy who I bought it from who also never drove it. So the only two people that have ever actually driven the car to any extent are the original owner and me.

When I got the car the odometer was at 8165. I tried to ascertain (from the guy who restored it) whether the speedometer was replaced during the restoration but never got an answer on that question.

Based on the story, as told, I'm wondering if that was the actual mileage on the car? Really, it's just a point of curiosity because there's no way I could ever prove that without some kind of documentation, but it is an interesting question to me.

There are some problems with the idea though. First, if that is the real history of the car, why did it lose the original motor? Sure, it could have had a catastrophic failure. Or, maybe the original owner sold the motor because he wasn't using the car. Second, when I got the car it had a 4.88 rear gear in it. I suppose the original owner may have had a reason to do that. Maybe drag racing, which could explain why the original motor is gone. But, I guess a car that was just used for fun and drag racing may well have had low miles??

OTOH, when I got the car, it had a bent right rear axle. That would be consistent with a right rear quarter collision. Also, if that were the case, if the car had a bent axle and was being driven, that surely would have come to light. So the fact that it still had this bent rear axle when I got the car would suggest that it really hasn't been driven since the accident in 1974.

Anyway, I just thought the whole thing was moderately interesting. It would be kinda cool if the car really is an 8000 mile car. I'd like to learn more about this but unfortunately, I'm probably not going to get any more information at this point. So that's that.

[vertigto]

Interesting. Was the original motor gone before the 'minor collision' or maybe tagged the wall while racing?

[R 70 Judge]

Are there any restoration photos? That may shed some light. Is the interior all original?

[johnta1]

I'd say that with the 4.88 gear the speedo was disconnected.
Also if the tranny is not original, the new tranny may not have the correct cable or gear for the speedo to read correctly.

Another thing is that the back of the speedo cluster may have a date.
If the date is off it could have been replaced.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by vertigto

Interesting. Was the original motor gone before the 'minor collision' or maybe tagged the wall while racing?

I don't know when or why the original motor left the car. Also don't know about the details of the "collision".

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

Are there any restoration photos? That may shed some light. Is the interior all original?

Unfortunately, no photos. Some of the interior is original, some not. Seat covers are repros.

Originally Posted by johnta1

I'd say that with the 4.88 gear the speedo was disconnected.
Also if the tranny is not original, the new tranny may not have the correct cable or gear for the speedo to read correctly.

Another thing is that the back of the speedo cluster may have a date.
If the date is off it could have been replaced.

It's possible that the speedo was disconnected at some point, but when I got the car it was operational. Believe it or not, I haven't checked the numbers on the tranny. I'll have to go out there and take a look tomorrow. Also, I am replacing the dash harness in the Spring so I can see what date codes it may have on the speedo.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by jhein

Anyway, I just thought the whole thing was moderately interesting. It would be kinda cool if the car really is an 8000 mile car. I'd like to learn more about this but unfortunately, I'm probably not going to get any more information at this point. So that's that.

Well it's neat that you know a lot more about your car's history. It makes it more than just an "auction car"

[jhein]

Originally Posted by keith k

Well it's neat that you know a lot more about your car's history. It makes it more than just an "auction car"

That's the best part for sure. Just to know more about the car in general is super cool.

[PAUL K]

That is interesting. It's always cool to hear the history of an old muscle car, even if it's not one you own. I don't understand why it's hard to get a lot of "previous owners" to talk about them.

I'd be confident the 4:88's had something to do with the original engine leaving the motor compartment.

Just curious did the bent axle cause a vibration? That's a good example of why one needs a professional making the repairs. The shop teacher never gave the axle a thought.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

That is interesting. It's always cool to hear the history of an old muscle car, even if it's not one you own. I don't understand why it's hard to get a lot of "previous owners" to talk about them.

I'd be confident the 4:88's had something to do with the original engine leaving the motor compartment.

Just curious did the bent axle cause a vibration? That's a good example of why one needs a professional making the repairs. The shop teacher never gave the axle a thought.

Actually no, it didn't. The way I discovered it was kind of embarrassing. Shortly after I got the car, I was out driving with a friend and a young girl pulls up next to me and says "hey it looks like your back wheel is about to fall off".
Then she says "I don't know, maybe it's supposed to be that way?". LOL.

So, no it didn't vibrate which was a surprise to me. I had my friend drive the car down the road so I could see it and the wheel wobble was quite dramatic. I couldn't believe that I didn't feel it at all. But, just like it was pointed out to me, I don't think anyone could have driven a car around like that and not become aware of it somehow.

[kingbuzzo]

Your car's backstory is similar to mine except it has allegedly 12k on it.

I haven't done any investigating and am highly skeptical but it was a pretty good deal even if it was 112k. There just isn't t/a's like this in my part of the world that weren't driven like hell over the years.

I wonder if it was a drag car cuz the original motor was long gone as well. Do you have the classic cracks at the front/top of yer sail panel to indicate body flexing from drag racing?

I still need to do the PHS but just like yers, shrouded in mystery so I will be watching yer investigation!

[jhein]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

Your car's backstory is similar to mine except it has allegedly 12k on it.

I haven't done any investigating and am highly skeptical but it was a pretty good deal even if it was 112k. There just isn't t/a's like this in my part of the world that weren't driven like hell over the years.

I wonder if it was a drag car cuz the original motor was long gone as well. Do you have the classic cracks at the front/top of yer sail panel to indicate body flexing from drag racing?

I still need to do the PHS but just like yers, shrouded in mystery so I will be watching yer investigation!

Well, I'm not sure how much real investigating I'm gonna do other than look for date codes on the speedo. Still won't prove anything but could disprove if the dates are wrong. It's OK though because I didn't pay for the car thinking it was an 8000 mile car. I figured either it rolled over or it was a replacement speedo. But now that I've heard the story it does raise the possibility. I'm really just glad to know some of the history of the car.

Also, no cracks at the sail panel.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I'd say that with the 4.88 gear the speedo was disconnected.
Also if the tranny is not original, the new tranny may not have the correct cable or gear for the speedo to read correctly.

Another thing is that the back of the speedo cluster may have a date.
If the date is off it could have been replaced.

I checked it this morning and it does not match the car or the motor.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

...I don't understand why it's hard to get a lot of "previous owners" to talk about them...

Yeah, I don't know. I'll admit that it would be odd to get a call out of the blue from a stranger about a car you sold a decade ago to a third party. Maybe they worry that you're somehow trying to get something from them, scam them or something, I don't know.

Funny thing is the only reason I even knew the guy's name was because the guy I bought the car from never had it titled in his name. I got the title that was signed over by the previous owner.

[Formulabruce]

Having looked at many many low mile cars at the dealership only days to 5 years old, the first place I would look on a " low mile car" would be for retainer clips on the rear wheel studs. Then I may pull the rear drums. Having seen a ton of factory brake shoes., This is easy. Most these cars made it past the 5/50 warranty with original rear brakes. Obviously pedal pad wear is another.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Having looked at many many low mile cars at the dealership only days to 5 years old, the first place I would look on a " low mile car" would be for retainer clips on the rear wheel studs. Then I may pull the rear drums. Having seen a ton of factory brake shoes., This is easy. Most these cars made it past the 5/50 warranty with original rear brakes. Obviously pedal pad wear is another.

Only one problem with that theory, in states (such as PA where I lived previously) it is mandatory to remove two wheels, and brake drums, cross corners every year for brake inspections (it used to be every 6 months before 1977). So a 1974 car would have both of the brake drums pulled by the time it was one year old. Being I was a state inspection mechanic we always twisted the clips with a pair of diagonal wire cutters, and threw the clips away. It depends on what state the car would be in, if that had any bearing on mileage verification.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

Having looked at many many low mile cars at the dealership only days to 5 years old, the first place I would look on a " low mile car" would be for retainer clips on the rear wheel studs. Then I may pull the rear drums. Having seen a ton of factory brake shoes., This is easy. Most these cars made it past the 5/50 warranty with original rear brakes. Obviously pedal pad wear is another.

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Only one problem with that theory, in states (such as PA where I lived previously) it is mandatory to remove two wheels, and brake drums, cross corners every year for brake inspections (it used to be every 6 months before 1977). So a 1974 car would have both of the brake drums pulled by the time it was one year old. Being I was a state inspection mechanic we always twisted the clips with a pair of diagonal wire cutters, and threw the clips away. It depends on what state the car would be in, if that had any bearing on mileage verification.

The stuff people here know just blows me away. I can take a look at the studs and the pads although I'm not sure how much of that was gone through when they rebuilt the rear end.

[Formulabruce]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

Only one problem with that theory, in states (such as PA where I lived previously) it is mandatory to remove two wheels, and brake drums, cross corners every year for brake inspections (it used to be every 6 months before 1977). So a 1974 car would have both of the brake drums pulled by the time it was one year old. Being I was a state inspection mechanic we always twisted the clips with a pair of diagonal wire cutters, and threw the clips away. It depends on what state the car would be in, if that had any bearing on mileage verification.

I should have mentioned Rivets.
We never pulled those drums on cars under 20k miles but did test the ebrake.

[Sirrotica]

Originally Posted by Formulabruce

I should have mentioned Rivets.
We never pulled those drums on cars under 20k miles but did test the ebrake.

PA state law mandated that the drums are pulled during the state inspection, it was required to remove the drums even when new. Did it get done on all new cars? The law requires that the lining be measured by the mechanic, and the remaining lining be recorded in the records. Most times the lining measured from the rivet heads was 4/32s, that would be the reading recorded on the repair order, and transferred into the book required each garage to maintain for an audit once a year by a state police officer. the law requires you also to differentiate whether the lining was bonded, or riveted lining.

If the car was involved in an accident attributed to a mechanical defect, the records may be examined by the state police. If the car was resold, and the inspection sticker was illegally affixed as determined by a state police officer, you as the mechanic that affixed that sticker are liable.

Having a state inspection station, and being a licensed mechanic in PA has a lot of demands, and consequences, if the inspection was found to be illegal or fraudulent. Plus all the record keeping that goes along with the responsibility.

In PA it's a necessary evil if you run a garage, or work as a mechanic. Without the inspection license, you stand to lose a lot of customer base. At least 50% of the work done, is generated from state inspections.

Not living in PA since 1999, I don't miss the aggravation a bit.

[Trevor78]

The classic signs of body flex from drag racing?! Or just a car without a full chassis driven normally.

[keith k]

Originally Posted by Trevor78

The classic signs of body flex from drag racing?! Or just a car without a full chassis driven normally.

Right ... it's the latter, most likely.

Almost all of these cars develop those cracks in the upper rear corner of the side window. Torsional loads into the body are worse just hitting a good single wheel pot hole than they would be from typical drag racing.