#21  
Old 04-17-2022, 01:56 AM
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Apparently SD performance are so busy they can't even reply to a simple email ?

  #22  
Old 04-17-2022, 05:45 AM
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Question Roller lifters ?

So , SD isn't responding so I'm reading up on the cam choise and just when I'm considering the 'old faithful ' rollercam I come across a post concerning roller lifters.
(https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...60#post6288960 )

Am I to conclude from this that a SFT cam is the way to go ?

I've got a classic Mini Cooper who runs a SFT also without problems and the cam for the small cubes is way more aggressive. ( 84 ci / cam 280/290)

  #23  
Old 04-17-2022, 06:35 AM
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Schneider
http://schneidercams.com/pontiacv-8.aspx

Howards
https://www.howardscams.com/products...engine/265-455

Isky
https://iskycams.com/downloads/IskyCatalog.pdf

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Old 04-17-2022, 07:25 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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I agree with Skip.

Not long ago I worked with Tim Goolsby at Bullet Racing Cams for a new cam in my current 505. Tim worked with Harold Brookshire at UltraDyne for 21 years.

They have have both UltraDyne lobes and their own designs.

https://bulletcams.com/

Harold when he owned UltraDyne did a lot of Pontiac cams and Jim Butler recommended and sold a lot of them !
Here was a statement by Harold Brookshire:

"Although I have done only a few Buick cams, I have done an awful lot of Pontiac's and Oldsmobile. Jim Butler, famed Pontiac engine builder, was my largest buyer of camshafts at UltraDyne, doing over $65,000 a year.
He thought they worked very well, until the Recession of 2000 left us with an inability to keep him supplied."



.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-17-2022 at 07:40 AM.
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Old 04-17-2022, 10:19 AM
78w72 78w72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Timmermans View Post
Apparently SD performance are so busy they can't even reply to a simple email ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Timmermans View Post
So , SD isn't responding so I'm reading up on the cam choise and just when I'm considering the 'old faithful ' rollercam I come across a post concerning roller lifters.
(https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...60#post6288960 )

Am I to conclude from this that a SFT cam is the way to go ?

I've got a classic Mini Cooper who runs a SFT also without problems and the cam for the small cubes is way more aggressive. ( 84 ci / cam 280/290)
yes SD is very busy & being a one man shop, or at least one man replying to emails & technical questions, it can take a little while for a reply sometimes. dave has always replied to my emails even well after buying parts or services, but it can take a few days or a week sometimes, when he does reply he provides very detailed info, much more than expected.

as for lifter failures, its just like many other failures or problems, you only read about the bad ones & never the 10s of thousands doing fine, kinda like the cast crank failures. yes there are some lifter failures but the vast majority of street engines running a standard comp type hyd roller lifter dont have major failures... some tickers are more common but for either situation there are so many variables its hard to know why they failed. i have had 2 sets of comp roller lifters on a OF cam, the older ones did tick a little but SD & comp warranted them & replaced with the newer S type that have been mostly silent with thousands of street miles & lots of drag strip runs on them for 6+ years now... (knock on wood)

the hybrid SFT lifter on a hyd roller cam thing has been done quite a bit & cliff r swears by it being very reliable & quiet when lashed right.

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Old 04-17-2022, 10:33 AM
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I can't seem to open Bullits product list.
It comes out as gibberish ?

' read only ' in the US or what ?

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Old 04-17-2022, 10:42 AM
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When I talked to Mike Jones he said if doing his own engine he would use Johnson hyd rollers.FWIW,Tom

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Old 04-17-2022, 12:04 PM
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78w72, “the hybrid SFT lifter on a hyd roller cam thing has been done quite a bit & cliff r swears by it being very reliable & quiet when lashed right“

I assume you meant to say solid roller lifters. Just wanting to keep this clear.

Thanks
Murf

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Old 04-17-2022, 12:23 PM
78w72 78w72 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Murf View Post
78w72, “the hybrid SFT lifter on a hyd roller cam thing has been done quite a bit & cliff r swears by it being very reliable & quiet when lashed right“

I assume you meant to say solid roller lifters. Just wanting to keep this clear.

Thanks
Murf
doh! yes i meant solid roller lifters... early morning post.

  #30  
Old 04-17-2022, 02:19 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Bullet Racing Cams Maters lists....

UltraDyne lobes
https://bulletcams.com/Masters/ultradynemasters.html

Their own cam designs
https://bulletcams.com/Masters/Masters.htm

Custom cam

Pick the the number of degrees desired for the lobe. Then if desired choose the exhaust lobe with the extra duration that suits your combination.... example 4, 6. 8, 10 and up degrees.
This to suit the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the heads in use. Then apply any lobe separation desired....108, 110, 112 or more.

.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-17-2022 at 03:08 PM.
  #31  
Old 04-17-2022, 10:13 PM
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Agree with Steve...give Tim at Bullet a call and tell him what you have and want to accomplish. He will give advice on how to accomplish your goals...class act and very knowledgeable.

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  #32  
Old 04-18-2022, 02:19 AM
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Thanks for the link.

Now I can see even more of a puzzle.
I take it this is more of a specialist site for guys like Butler and Kauffman etc. , not for the average Joe , like myself ?

  #33  
Old 04-18-2022, 04:33 AM
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Question Butler cam

I've been searching the mechanical cams but the selection isn't that big and they're more dragstrip oriented.
How about this one ? . . . This seems to fit the bill , not sure if my compression ratio is compatible (10.3:1)

https://butlerperformance.com/i-3164...tegory:1234796

  #34  
Old 04-18-2022, 08:42 AM
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Regarding Dave at SD Performance not returning calls... in addition to being a small shop, the family was hit with a major land slide on their property a while back. I can only imagine the struggle to deal with that issue along with keeping the shop running at some capacity.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

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Old 04-18-2022, 09:43 AM
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Butler/Comp SP Street Performance Cam, Hyd FT, 284/296, 240/246, .507/.510, 112 Hyd. CCA-BP6018SP

That Butler hyd flat tappet cam is comprised of Comp XE lobes 5447 on the intake and 5209 on the exhaust, then custom ordered with a 112 lobe separation.


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #36  
Old 04-18-2022, 09:56 AM
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The Comp solid lifter cam with those lobes will also act about 12-15 degrees smaller @ .050" than a similar flat cam so plan accordingly. They used to say to allow about 10 degrees hydraulic flat tappet to flat solid. I did some back to back testing once and found it was a bit more than that, and I used Comp XTQ lobes and almost the same specs as the cam listed from Butler.........

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  #37  
Old 04-18-2022, 10:16 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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A td bit for conversation.....

Years ago when UltraDyne was still in business Jim Butler used to order and recommend the following UltraDyne mechanical flat tappet cam for a Pontiac application.
At the time Jim stated 1.2 BHP/CID with 9.5 compression. 540 HP in a 455.

Further in the UltraDyne catalog at the time that specific mechanical FTC cam was listed as "Popular street/strip cam, 455 with 2800 ss converter"

276 / 284 at .020"
241 / 251 at .050"
.518" / .530" lift w/1.5 rocker ratio
Ground with a 110 lobe separation.

Those lobes are listed here on the Bullet Racing Cams web site:
https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/Flobes.htm

If you were interested in something like that cam Tim at Bullet could make it.
Or depending on the heads in use he could alter the amount of additional exhaust duration.
In addition if you did not want a 112 lobe separation he could also alter that.

( Information provided in this post does not represent any endorsement. And unless specified it is not based on personal experience and is offered for general interest only )


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-18-2022 at 10:52 AM.
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Old 04-18-2022, 12:20 PM
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How much difference there is between a hydraulic and solid lift cam can vary a great deal. Some cam designers will use the same lobe for both hydraulic and solid tappet cam. With the only difference being what kind of lash ramp is added. A tight lash (0.012 - 0.014) give up less duration than a (0.020 - 0.026) cam will against a hydraulic.

Stan

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Old 04-18-2022, 11:11 PM
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Usually the tight lash cams are more aggressive. They loose less duration with less lash, but they also have quite a bit less seat timing. Against a hydraulic cam another 15* @.050 is not far off, even though it is only loosing 8* taking up the lash, the shorter seat timing reins in the power band. The short seat of the Comps XE cams act similar, they won’t turn that many RPMs for how big they look at .050”. XE 274 often run out of steam before 5000, I recall an out of the box KRE d port dyno even maxing out HP at 4500 RPM. The bigger 284 is usually done before 5500, it will probably have no issue making 500 HP, but there are better cams. Some of the SFT designs that have bigger lashes often have quite a bit more seat timing, and the 10 degree difference to the hyd cam hold pretty close. Not to easy to compare, often guys end up to small on their SFT choices..

I thought that Bullet Ultradyne grind Steve brought up was a really good pick. If you talked to Tim at Bullet I doubt he would make much for changes from that in a SFT. I’d probably suggest a wider LSA since the car has a low stall and highway gears, Tim likely would also. Those profiles are easy on parts, don’t need a ton of spring pressure, and make great street cams. I’d take out any XE HFT and swap for one of those Bullet SFT grinds in one of my cars in a heart beat.

Bullet has some HFT cams that work well also. Some high rpm cams similar in size to the .050” ratings of the XE 284 but have quite a bit more lobe lift, IRC they are .530+ with 1.5s. My go to HFT profiles at Bullet have been their .3334” lobe series. The 283* @.006” , 235*@ .050” paired with 291* @.006 and 244* @ .050” end up having .50” lift with 1.5s and .550” with 1.65s. It lopes some when ground on a 112 LSA, but overall a lot better cam than the XE284. We did a 280/288, 232/240 in 112 with 1.65s (.550” lift) for a GTO 455 with 3.07 gears and a 2500 stall. It barely lopes at all, drives around like it has a stock cam, but when you open the throttle, you quickly realize it is not a stock 068 cam anymore!

Worth a call to Bullet, at very least you will have something to compare with what Butler sells.


Last edited by Jay S; 04-18-2022 at 11:22 PM.
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  #40  
Old 04-24-2022, 05:21 AM
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So I filled out the Bullet cam recommendation form.
Hopefully they have the time to respond.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

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