#61  
Old 09-25-2019, 12:50 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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From my understanding, I need a keyed 12v for the two fans and the MSD 6AL.

I replaced the resistor wire in the #1 bulkhead with a HEI wire, which I will connect to the MSD 12v little red wire per M&H's instructions. No issues there.

For each electric fan, I will also need a keyed 12v connection as well. What is the prefered wire to connect to for this? I need one that is live when the key switch is in the run position (but not accessory???).

What wire off the bulkhead connector is best for this? Is the same MSD HEI wire ok?

Attached is a photo of the wiring diagram of the key switch moving clockwise.

Here are the letters. In parentheses, are my guesses. Also attached are images of the bulkhead connectors with the corresponding numbers.

B (???)
A (accessory or alternator?)
S (starter solenoid?)
I (run?)
2 (???)

Thanks!
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #62  
Old 09-25-2019, 07:11 AM
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HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
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How do you control the fans on/off, with a temp switch or probe? They don't run all the time do they?

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  #63  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:15 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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They will have a temperature sending unit in the intake manifold. 180 degrees. I assume they ground out when the temp hits 180, turning on the fans. They have a power wire that will go to a Mad Electric junction, and from there to either the alternator or battery.

What I am unsure about is what is the best keyed 12v connection? This way, they only go on when the key switch is in run and the temp is over 180.

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #64  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:18 AM
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Is this the factory wiring diagram of your car?

The 'A' is accessory (probably)
The '2' is (probably) Ign for starting

Diagram from service manual (for 1970):




I'd use a wire that is powered by the 'Run' position to trigger a relay to run the fans?
Or use a power post that is fed by a wire from the 'Run' position to power extra accessories. (by using relays for accessories)


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  #65  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:20 AM
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Just read your blurb below your sig, this is a 65 GTO?

Probably roughly the same setup for ignition switch basically, but 70 had the newer style and lock out.

Statements are basically same as I posted.



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  #66  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:30 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Yes, '65.

To my knowledge, I have no such diagram in the service manual.

My wiring diagram shows 5 wires coming off the key switch as:

Clockwise:

B, A, S, I, 2

See attached photo. Dark green is wire number 6, but is an oddball as it is connected / ground different of the switch.

I don't have time before work to go to the diagram and trace them, but more than one may be a good 12v. I am curious what the optimal one is.

Attached is the engine harness and headlight harness bulkhead connectors.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"

Last edited by wbnapier; 09-25-2019 at 08:38 AM.
  #67  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:44 AM
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Here is switch:





The wiring diagram shows a junction box that has wire to starter solenoid. That would be a good place to use main power to a relay(s) for your fans/accessories. Or actually it also goes inside it looks like and goes to the power conv. top switch. Yours isn't a convertible (I don't think?) but the wire is probably under the dash. It would be bigger yellow wire. Use a wire that is from a 'ign on' wire to fan switch to the relay. (or accessories)


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"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #68  
Old 09-25-2019, 08:59 AM
"QUICK-SILVER" "QUICK-SILVER" is offline
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Default B,A,S,I,2

B- Battery
A- Accessory
S- Solenoid
I- Ignition/Run
2- 12 Volt Cranking/IGN-2

Might consider using "A" so you can cool the engine with ignition off. "A" is hot in run and acc...
"I" is hot in run only.

Either one needs to be used to work relays....NOT power the fans.

FWIW the green wire is for hot light 'bulb test' while cranking.

Clay

What John said


Last edited by "QUICK-SILVER"; 09-25-2019 at 09:01 AM. Reason: Got Tree'ed
  #69  
Old 09-25-2019, 09:53 AM
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You don't want the fans running while cranking, the MSD box and/or ignition might not get the require volts to run/start.

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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #70  
Old 09-25-2019, 10:15 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Quick-Silver,

"I" - Is the pink wire that goes to #1 engine harness bulkhead connector. That is my HEI wire for the MSD 6AL.
"A" - Is the brown wire that goes to #9 engine harness bulkhead connector. I think that goes to the external voltage regulator that I am not using, so I can try to make a terminal for that.

HWYSTR455,

Yes, I don't want to overload a circuit with fans and cranking, but if I am using #1 for HEI, per M&H's instructions, and that is traced back to the "I" on the key switch, then that is energized only in run as Quick-Silver said???

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #71  
Old 09-25-2019, 11:36 AM
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No, I is hot while cranking too, certainly with the HEI conversion (not the same as the OE circuit diagram). Generally, I only use the I circuit for the distributor/coil, and/or maybe the MSD.

Do you have Packard 56 terminals? Is there a wire in that #9 bulkhead spot? As long as it's not full time 12v, yes, you can use that, or the choke wire.

.

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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #72  
Old 09-26-2019, 01:19 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Yes, I have 56 terminals. And yes, the #9 is in my bulkhead connector and goes to the unused voltage regulator. Unused, as I have a one-wire alternator.

M&H told me to use the HEI wire for the fans as well as the MSD 6AL. Since I am using relays, it is just a trigger, and shouldn't be a problem. I will look into it more Saturday when I have more time.

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #73  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:54 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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HWYSTR455,

I should finish my wiring tomorrow. I am confused about the wiring of the starter, one wire alternator, and battery.

The alternator output post has a fusible link, then an 8 gauge wire to the primary junction block on the firewall.

"The battery-charging wire" starts at the small starter solenoid post has a fusible link, then a 10 gauge wire to the primary junction block on the firewall.

Do I still install this, even though I am using a relay? So, I'll have 4 wires going to the starter. 2 from the relay (red and yellow), the 10 gauge battery charging wire, and the big wire from the batter + terminal?

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #74  
Old 09-30-2019, 02:24 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Also, what wire is the dash main power wire that I need to connect to the primary junction block?

The heavy red wire from the big engine harness splice? It used to run to the coil? It looks like I could also use the heavy black and red wire that used to run from the alternator?

Is there any value you in taking apart the harness / big splice (see photo) and putting it on another junction block? One of the heavy wires I could remove as I don't need it.

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"

Last edited by wbnapier; 09-30-2019 at 02:37 AM.
  #75  
Old 09-30-2019, 02:38 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Here's the photo of the big engine harness splice.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #76  
Old 09-30-2019, 06:14 AM
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Original the wire from the starter solenoid to the alternator (or main cluster splice) was the only power from the battery to the car electrical.

You don't need that wire if you provide a wire from the battery + to the main junction block you are using to provide power to wherever needed.



Never heard of a 'big' wire to coil being a main source of 12 volts to other circuits?


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Pontiac Power RULES !!!
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Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova
Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats

KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #77  
Old 09-30-2019, 07:51 AM
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Yeah, I'm getting a little lost on this, try not to over think this. But just to give you an idea, you do want to consolidate the power feeds to one location. Which includes the batt, main power wire, and charge wire.


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1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #78  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:00 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Johntol,

I miswrote.

Yes, the big red wire went from the main cluster splice to the starter solenoid. I can use that wire or the alternator black and red wire that also originates in the main cluster splice to connect to my primary junction block.

In the "Mad Electric System" I am using, they are both unused.

The primary junction block gets power from the alternator, so either would power the dash.

I am also thinking of unravelling the main cluster splice, removing the wires I don't need, and making the remainder ring terminals, and putting them on a junction block. This would make things more serviceable and modifiable.
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__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
  #79  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:16 AM
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Sounds good to me.



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Pontiac Power RULES !!!
www.wallaceracing.com

Winner of Top Class at Pontiac Nationals, 2004 Cordova
Winner of Quick 16 At Ames 2004 Pontiac Tripower Nats

KRE's MR-1 - 1st 5 second Pontiac block ever!


"Every man has a right to his own opinion, but no man has a right to be wrong in his facts."

"People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid." – Socrates
  #80  
Old 09-30-2019, 09:20 AM
wbnapier wbnapier is offline
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Thanks for all the help everyone. This has been a huge project. All the relays, mods, etc... I'll hopefully be done this evening.

Unravelling that engine harness main splice will be fun, but I prefer to have it on a junction block.

__________________
1965 Pontiac GTO
455/469 w/ #48 Heads, '65 Tri-Power
9.25:1 CR
Stump Puller Cam
Muncie M22W 1st-2.56 2nd-1.75 3rd-1.37 4th-1.00
3.55 Rear Differential
Front: 225/60R15 Height: 25.6"
Rear: 275/60R15 Height: 28"
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