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  #41  
Old 11-19-2022, 07:11 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Originally Posted by Simple Man View Post
Seems I heard the same thing years ago, WRT Saturn.....
Yea, Saturn is a real head scratcher. When first launched, they had a decent product, very loyal following, great dealer network, and tons of public goodwill. As the years progressed, they let GM creep into every part of the operation including the product and it became ruined and poisoned just like the rest of the GM divisions. By the end, all their stuff was just re-badged garbage from the rest of the GM line. Why would anybody buy one? Second problem was in the 19 years as a separate GM division, they never posted a profit. Awfully tough to compete with the imports. Seems American car makers just can't make a good small car and a profit at the same time. Building a small number of outrageously expensive cars on;y 2% of the population can afford may work better for them.

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  #42  
Old 11-20-2022, 04:17 AM
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unruhjonny unruhjonny is offline
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I mean no disrespect, but would like to point out a bit of a problem with the following:

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Originally Posted by jerry455 View Post
You guys that say Buick has not built anything exciting since the GN have probably never driven a 2012 or newer Regal GS. That is a great car, I owned a 2016 for a couple of years, before buying my truck. It has a turbocharged 2.0 4 cylinder making 260 hp. Some were available with a manual transmission and all-wheel drive was an option. It handled very well and is fun to drive. ...
Problem #1



or maybe you want one with four doors:



Problem #2



Both of these vehicles are actually the same platform, but rebodies of each other - and they are also "wrong wheel drive" just like the Buick.

Why are they problems for the Regal GS?

The GS's are essentially bigger and more bloated versions of the earlier cars.

I believe that road tests had the Regal GS's coming in at a full second slower in the quarter mile than the Cobalt.

Problem #3


or

or


Granted GM abandoned all those vehicles, likely because of lagging sales - but these were all launched at an economic downturn (remember the bail out?);
All vehicle sales were down - not just sport compacts.
GM would repeatedly shoot itself in the foot;
Surely I cannot be the only person here to recall that first year solstice's had waiting lists(!);
So what does GM do when they have a hot product(?) - they dilute the water, and introduce another car on the same platform... sheesh.

They were all fantastic products, and between the three (err, four) different name plates, they had a pretty wide market swath... nasty car reviewers trying to get noticed aside.

I would buy another Cobalt SS today if they were still making them - I now know where I needed to pay better attention to ward off rust.

I actually took notice of the Buick GS, but to me it seemed like more hype for nostalgia than much else.

When GM did away with their old franchise system, GMC & Chevrolet trucks essentially held the same spot - one of those could go, and I doubt anyone would really notice.

I agree with other statements made in this discussion, but wanted to point out that the Regal GS was far from the overlooked awe inspiring 2.0L Turbocharged vehicle you seemed to make it out to be;
Rather it was essentially (to me) a recycled, tarted up compact fwd car that would have only had a tiny potential buying audience.

Now to anyone who cares to scoff at the Cobalt SS's, just look at the sales of the pre-2008 models - that should speak for itself;
and if anyone wants to point out the ratio of n/a cars (2006-2007) vs same year boosted cars;
I have time and again heard stories of sales staff steering men AWAY from the boosted car and into the n/a car.

There, I said my bit.

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Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
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Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)

Last edited by unruhjonny; 11-20-2022 at 04:23 AM.
  #43  
Old 11-20-2022, 05:36 PM
jerry455 jerry455 is offline
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We have a 2006 Cobalt SS Supercharged in the family, I am very familiar with them, I had an HHR, not a SS but would like to find a nice one. The Regal GS is a lot nicer of a daily ride than the Cobalt or the HHR. We have had 2 Regal GS's, one a 2012 manual 6 speed and a 2016 automatic 6 speed. When the 2012 GS came out in 2012, 2 GM Milford Proving Ground Engineers ran one in one of those Pony Express races out west and it and the top speed, limited to 155 mph. It was a production car but with just the required safety equipment for the class. Possibly a roll bar and helmets, I think. A lot of people were impressed that a "Buick" could do that. I like a lot of the performance cars GM has made but my favorite will always be Pontiac. I was mad when they stopped and I told a lot of people there about it, I am an employee at the GM Warren Tech Center. I make comments about it any chance I get.

  #44  
Old 11-20-2022, 06:16 PM
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I have no doubt the later Regal GS is a nicer driving, err cruising car;
but it was also a big step up in cost from the Cobalt/HHR - that price jump would be for niceties which I personally can do without.

It seemed like the period press was trying to tout the Regal GS in all the same ways that it did with the Cobalt SS.

If you haven't compared the two, there is a worlds difference between the supercharged cars, and turbocharged cars - which is why the turbo car held the Nurburgring record for it's class for something like ten years...

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #45  
Old 11-21-2022, 09:50 AM
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We all live in the past on this forum because we love old cars. GM should just rebrand as exactly that “General”Motors or some derivative. Horsepower wars don’t exist any longer between brands with EV being shoved down our throats and I cannot see the love of an era of cars ever happening again with a global economy.

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  #46  
Old 11-21-2022, 12:13 PM
1965gp 1965gp is offline
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I wonder if the Solstice was the last GM car to have a waiting list prior to the C8?

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  #47  
Old 11-21-2022, 12:43 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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It seems possible. The Solstice coupe was destined to be a strong seller within that niche market. Great looking little car IMO. Exactly what the "Car Czar" and his buddies wanted to bring to a screeching halt. Solstice, G8 GT, G6 GT = fun, style and joy of driving=the enemy. Must be eliminated. That's why we have Buick.

  #48  
Old 11-21-2022, 01:42 PM
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Everyone points to GMC as being redundant, and should be axed, but there's a reason they're still around.

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  #49  
Old 11-21-2022, 01:53 PM
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Trucks are a different category - brand loyalty prolly...

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  #50  
Old 11-21-2022, 01:54 PM
mgarblik mgarblik is offline
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Since this thread is about Buick going away, this would be my radical plan moving forward. I think most would agree that GMC exists today so Cadillac and Buick dealers have a truck to sell. If Buick goes away, so does the "Need" for GMC. But some people just hate Chevrolet and would buy a GMC truck but not a Chevrolet. (Even though they are 95-98% identical other than emblems and some minor interior trim and a couple options. So how to solve this? Eliminate both Chevrolet and GMC trucks and re-brand them as GM trucks. Then sell them at the combined Chevrolet/Cadillac/GM truck dealers. Streamlined and every body sells the same stuff. IMO, that's the way you downsize. You can say it could never work, but Chrysler did just that. There is no Dodge Truck, or Chrysler Truck. Only Ram.

  #51  
Old 11-21-2022, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mgarblik View Post
Since this thread is about Buick going away, this would be my radical plan moving forward. I think most would agree that GMC exists today so Cadillac and Buick dealers have a truck to sell. ...
I had understood that post-bailout, GM restructured so that franchisees ALL became Chevrolet/Buick/GMC;
They kept the Cadillac as an add-on to an existing franchise, but also kept their rules about needing to have a certain sales volume (or something like that) in order to be eligible to have the Cadillac franchise.

As with everything in life, there may be some franchises which were able to be exempt from the new rules, but hte few Pontiac(Buick/GMC) dealers that survived around here all became Chevrolet/Buick/GMC dealers.

Since I bought my Cobalt right around the time that GM was in trouble, I recall for years afterward, the dealers I dealt with were pretty pushy about you filling out the GM(parent) customer satisfaction survey - I think it was a period of a couple years where GM was looking to also cut down on the number of franchisees all together.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
  #52  
Old 11-21-2022, 07:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
...I think it was a period of a couple years where GM was looking to also cut down on the number of franchisees all together.
GM used that to weed out a lot of their problem dealerships - looking at you Olsen...

  #53  
Old 11-21-2022, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
I had understood that post-bailout, GM restructured so that franchisees ALL became Chevrolet/Buick/GMC;
They kept the Cadillac as an add-on to an existing franchise, but also kept their rules about needing to have a certain sales volume (or something like that) in order to be eligible to have the Cadillac franchise.

As with everything in life, there may be some franchises which were able to be exempt from the new rules, but hte few Pontiac(Buick/GMC) dealers that survived around here all became Chevrolet/Buick/GMC dealers.

Since I bought my Cobalt right around the time that GM was in trouble, I recall for years afterward, the dealers I dealt with were pretty pushy about you filling out the GM(parent) customer satisfaction survey - I think it was a period of a couple years where GM was looking to also cut down on the number of franchisees all together.
This is what I've found in Edmonton too. Want a GMC truck, any GM dealer can get whatever stock is available. I had a Buick /GMC dealer and a Chevrolet dealer competing for my business in 2019 on a new 2019 1500 GMC Elevation.

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  #54  
Old 11-22-2022, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unruhjonny View Post
I had understood that post-bailout, GM restructured so that franchisees ALL became Chevrolet/Buick/GMC;
They kept the Cadillac as an add-on to an existing franchise, but also kept their rules about needing to have a certain sales volume (or something like that) in order to be eligible to have the Cadillac franchise.

As with everything in life, there may be some franchises which were able to be exempt from the new rules, but hte few Pontiac(Buick/GMC) dealers that survived around here all became Chevrolet/Buick/GMC dealers.
Not true.

In my area (MN), there are Buick/GMC dealers and there are Chevy dealerships.

If you want a GMC, you have to go to the Buick/GMC dealer. If you want to get a Chevy, you have to go to the Chevy dealer.

I had a part time retirement gig at the local Chevy/Cadillac dealer and asked about getting a GMC Terrain vs the Chevy Equinox (the Terrain has Heads Up Display available) with my GM employee discount and couldn't do it through the dealership I worked for (I would have received the employee deal on my trade also).

Now I am aware of a few MN dealerships that do have both Chevy and GMC trucks, but that is the exception, not the rule.

  #55  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:06 AM
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I remember working in dealerships in the mid to late 90s, training people. If you had a GMC truck, a Chevy dealer couldn't do warranty work on it, even though you knew damn well that it came off the same assembly line. That was infuriating to people that owned GM vehicles. Badge engineering at its pinnacle.

Brad, I'm in for a fat bastard 3xl to keep it loose and comfy.

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  #56  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:29 AM
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In one of the small towns close to me, there is a Buick/Cadillac/GMC dealer right next door to a Chevy dealer. Trucks look like the big seller at both places. If they combined the truck brands, how do you pick which dealer to screw?

The GMC dealer used to carry Pontiacs and had a yearly Pontiac car show. I got to know the sales manager and that started a trend of buying GMC trucks from him. I feel zero technical difference between a Chevy and a GMC truck but I'll keep buying from the same guy. If they took GMC trucks away from him, I'd have zero brand loyalty.

Eric

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  #57  
Old 11-22-2022, 10:37 AM
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Never liked GMC. It’s a Chevy with a ton of plastic chrome on. GMC can go with Buick.

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  #58  
Old 11-22-2022, 11:54 AM
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For those who do not know, the Chevrolet trucks typically can not get some of the options that the GMC does;
The GMC is supposed to be a more upscale version of the Chevrolet truck.

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1970 Formula 400
Carousel Red paint on Black standard interior
A no-engine, no-transmission, no-wheel option car.
Quite likely one of few '70 Muncie three speed Formula 400's left.


1991 Grand Am: 14.4 @ 93.7mph (DA corrected) (retired DD, stock appearing)
2009 Cobalt SS: 13.9 @ 103mph (current DD; makes something north of 300hp & 350ft/lbs)
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  #59  
Old 11-22-2022, 12:38 PM
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Definitely - like automatic 4wd...cheby only got it years later

  #60  
Old 11-22-2022, 04:06 PM
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GMC's are made with thicker metal.

To me they look better, and being paired with Pontiac in the day it was easy to support the dealerships who chipped in with vintage Pontiac club activities - like Revord Motors for example.

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