[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

The pinion gear coming loose is a real problem on all of them.
When dad was running the other mini starter mentioned in this thread, the snap ring would come off eventually. The big problem with that is those starters don't have pinion support. So the gear goes flying off. If you're lucky like he was that day, you find it laying in the grass, slide it back on for another restart and drive it straight home. If your not so lucky to find the gear you're calling a hook.

At least with the Robbmc and the pinion support the gear stays on the shaft and doesn't go anywhere. In fact he drove it a few months like that before fixing it. Yes the Robbmc starters lose the gear too. Retention is with a small ball bearing and lock tight. We've had the gear come loose twice on a Robbmc. Neither time left us stranded as with the nose support it doesn't fall off and both times robb fixed it for free when the starter was several years old so I can't complain. Great service.
That's just one of the quirks with these mini starters you have to deal with. At least with the nose support I don't worry about being stranded next time it happens. There will be a next time lol

I have never had a problem with my pinion gear falling off but could be lucky. My compression is below 9.5:1 though too.

Since the same problem happened on two starters and brands could there be something else going on?

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by P@blo

I have never had a problem with my pinion gear falling off but could be lucky. My compression is below 9.5:1 though too.

Since the same problem happened on two starters and brands could there be something else going on?

He drives it a lot.

This has happened over the course of many years, 2 different 455's and now twice on his 571. So different blocks, different flexplates. I'd have to guess he's had 3 or 4 different types of mini starters on it before settling on the RobbMC.

Learned rather quickly that the other style like the powermaster with the gear hanging in the breeze, when that falls off it's a 50/50 chance it'll be found. He was lucky once and found it, slid it on, started the car and drove it home. I guess the good news is that when the C-clip fails it's pretty easy to replace the C-clip and keep on going as long as you still have the gear. That's what dad did after he got the car home. Snapped another clip in and continued to use the starter for a while.

RobbMC uses a different retention method as mentioned, and have had that fail twice over maybe a 5-6 year period? So it's not a frequent thing, but when it does happen, at least it has a pinion support so the gear doesn't go anywhere. Worse case it stays engaged in the flexplate and loosely rattles around. So just shut it off and start again. If it freewheels I have to reach under and push the gear back. But at least I know when it does that, it's not the end of the world, I can still get the car started and drive it home. In fact the last time dad drove the car for a while like that before bothering to fix it. That's one benefit I really didn't think about with the pinion support.

Funny part, he took the car to the Pontiac races like that a couple months ago, and once started in the pits he just let the car sit and idle in the staging lanes rather than starting and shutting the car off constantly moving up the line and risking a chance he might have to crawl under the car and push the gear back., made his run and came back to the pits.

Sent it back to Robb that Monday and he had it back Friday fixed for free. Can't complain. It'll probably last another few years I suspect. To keep from having down time the next time it happens, he bought a spare RobbMC starter.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by TCSGTO

Running the 9410 for 4 years now, still spins like new. It’s rated 50ft.lbs higher than the 9510 XS and is about $50 more. A Summit mini struggled and I had issues with the pinion gear coming loose on a RobbMc.

I have a 9410 in the box waiting to go on. I bought it for the extra torque capacity turning over a finicky 13.5-1 484 that has eaten two starter gears and a flexplate in the last year. I have a Meziere billet flexplate now so that is no longer an issue. The starter however has been giving me fits (it is a lesser model powermaster that keeps breaking)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9410

[Tim Corcoran]

Summit sells them for $196 and free shipping

[79firebird_99TA]

I went with the 9510 and it was right at 200 shipped.

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by R 70 Judge

I have a 9410 in the box waiting to go on. I bought it for the extra torque capacity turning over a finicky 13.5-1 484 that has eaten two starter gears and a flexplate in the last year. I have a Meziere billet flexplate now so that is no longer an issue. The starter however has been giving me fits (it is a lesser model powermaster that keeps breaking)

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9410

Question for you. Hopefully this doesn't sound dumb. First time seeing the Mezeire billet flywheel and was wondering if, because it's billet being to stiff? As the Flexplate has to flex. Just a thought. Looks like a very nice part. Thinking of getting one. Thanks

[Verdoro 68]

How's the clearance on these things with Ram Air manifolds? Can't be any worse than the factory solenoid I suppose. Just trying to eliminate the chances of an electrical meltdown. Came close to one a few years ago with the stock setup.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Verdoro 68

How's the clearance on these things with Ram Air manifolds? Can't be any worse than the factory solenoid I suppose. Just trying to eliminate the chances of an electrical meltdown. Came close to one a few years ago with the stock setup.

I use stock starters with ram air manifolds and don't have an issue. The mini starters make it easier for sure. I've had the RobbMC on with the solenoid up and the solenoid down, You can rotate them where you want.

It made no difference either way however. Worked and started the same. Only thing I noticed is it makes it easier to install/remove the solenoid wires, lol.

[Vroom_vroom]

Grab the jegs branded one, cheaper and power master makes them for em if I remember right. Works with the tri y’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[P@blo]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

He drives it a lot.

This has happened over the course of many years, 2 different 455's and now twice on his 571. So different blocks, different flexplates. I'd have to guess he's had 3 or 4 different types of mini starters on it before settling on the RobbMC.

Learned rather quickly that the other style like the powermaster with the gear hanging in the breeze, when that falls off it's a 50/50 chance it'll be found. He was lucky once and found it, slid it on, started the car and drove it home. I guess the good news is that when the C-clip fails it's pretty easy to replace the C-clip and keep on going as long as you still have the gear. That's what dad did after he got the car home. Snapped another clip in and continued to use the starter for a while.

RobbMC uses a different retention method as mentioned, and have had that fail twice over maybe a 5-6 year period? So it's not a frequent thing, but when it does happen, at least it has a pinion support so the gear doesn't go anywhere. Worse case it stays engaged in the flexplate and loosely rattles around. So just shut it off and start again. If it freewheels I have to reach under and push the gear back. But at least I know when it does that, it's not the end of the world, I can still get the car started and drive it home. In fact the last time dad drove the car for a while like that before bothering to fix it. That's one benefit I really didn't think about with the pinion support.

Funny part, he took the car to the Pontiac races like that a couple months ago, and once started in the pits he just let the car sit and idle in the staging lanes rather than starting and shutting the car off constantly moving up the line and risking a chance he might have to crawl under the car and push the gear back., made his run and came back to the pits.

Sent it back to Robb that Monday and he had it back Friday fixed for free. Can't complain. It'll probably last another few years I suspect. To keep from having down time the next time it happens, he bought a spare RobbMC starter.

Thanks for the detailed response FormulaJones. I figured it would not hurt to ask if there might be something else at play but sounds like you know what is goung on. Starting this fall I will inspect my pinion snapring to make sure it is not coming loose.

The main reason I went with a nippodenso starter was for the hotstart issue and have luckily been trouble free for me so far.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by P@blo

Thanks for the detailed response FormulaJones. I figured it would not hurt to ask if there might be something else at play but sounds like you know what is goung on. Starting this fall I will inspect my pinion snapring to make sure it is not coming loose.

The main reason I went with a nippodenso starter was for the hotstart issue and have luckily been trouble free for me so far.

You'll probably be fine. I just find that a weak link it seems.

I ran one of the powermasters on a 400SBC about 25 years ago. It was my daily driver and after about 2 years of daily use that starter started making a little noise. Nothing horrible but I noticed it started getting louder on the flexplate. Never left me stuck.

So I pulled that starter and the snap ring was still intact but I noticed when I grabbed the gear it would wobble just a bit. I suspect the bushing support was starting to wear which was always one of my concerns since that gear just sticks out with no support on the end. When that thing jumps out and engages trying to spin the engine over, that's a tremendous amount of force on the gear and shaft. I still have that starter up on the shelf.

Most guys here don't daily drive these cars though, so it's probably not something most would worry about. With the little driving that most do with their classic cars, one of these starters might go 5 years or 10 years without a problem.

[Formulajones]

Another little tidbit of info some may or may not know.

Every since that minor incident with the 400sbc I mentioned above I've been a big fan of the nose cone support or pinion support, what ever you want to call it.

With Pontiacs unfortunately you don't get a lot of choice. I think RobbMC is the only offering.

But some of you guys also have Chevrolets and on those what I did starting back in the 90's is running GM's mini starter. All GM starters have nose support. GM started with mini starters on the V8 LT1 in 92 and LS engines in 96.

So on all my BBC engines I started installing GM LS mini starters. They bolt right on for 168 tooth flexplates, all you need are slightly shorter starter bolts because the bodies are so small. But they spin over my BBC's no problem. In fact my Chevelle has had the same one on it since about 1998 and it gets driven regularly. Not daily but several thousand miles a year. That thing still spins over tight. Excellent little mini starters.

Back then those LS mini starters weren't that expensive either. Today I'm not sure, but I went that route decades ago on the Chevrolets and never an issue with those.

[turbo69bird]

I bought one of these for my firebird its worked well
So far.

[R 70 Judge]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

Question for you. Hopefully this doesn't sound dumb. First time seeing the Mezeire billet flywheel and was wondering if, because it's billet being to stiff? As the Flexplate has to flex. Just a thought. Looks like a very nice part. Thinking of getting one. Thanks

Quite a few board members run the meziere billet with great results. It’s a super nice piece. I honestly think it ate the replacement starter gear because the shaft on the starter may be bent from previous motor “kick backs”. I’ll know for sure after I pull it off and the new starter goes on.

[Elarson]

I'll jump in here with some more comments. I'm building a road race engine and am using the Canton "T" pan with Hedman headers.
The engine that came in the car had a CVR starter; which is the Nippon Denso type like the Powermaster. With the starter rotated inboard, it interfered with the pan. With it rotated out one hole, the wires would be dangerously close to the headers. I'll be running hot for 20 minutes at a time.

The RobbMC website shows dimensions on their starter compared to the Denso and Hitachi styles. Based on it being smaller than the other styles, I ordered one and got it with the pinion support for extra ruggedness.

Here's the first bit of happy news. Ordered on Tuesday, shipped on Wednesday, just got notification that it's on my doorstep today (Friday).

Eric

[Formulajones]

That's the great service with RobbMC.

You can flip that starter 180 and have the solenoid on the bottom, as long as your kick out pan allows it. Sure makes accessing the wires a breeze. Actually the starter is infinitely adjustable so you should be able to find a position that suites you. You'll see what I mean when you have it in your hands.

[Verdoro 68]

I had a RobbMc on my shopping list for a while, but the Powermaster 9510 praise combined with a discount from Jegs which put it a little under $200 made it hard to pass up. I guess I never paid much attention to these starters before, because the size and weight difference is huge! I hear the concern about the pinion sticking out in the wind we'll see how it goes with this one.