[RicksGTO]

I've tried to look from underneath but can't get myself into the right contortion to see anything of the vin from below. I think with the layout of the '69 dash, part of it would have to be removed to view the underside of the vin area. Maybe I can try again with a small mirror and get a shot at seeing it. I've seen other cars with them like this and heard from enough people about the variations in tag and rivet placement to believe that a significant number were placed in from the bottom depending on the year, plant, and maybe even from one shift to the next. Rick

[Steve Hoog]

Primer

That is my favorite type car, be proud.

Rick

If you can it would be cool, I'd take your word on it and move down the road if your's has the star rivots.

Steve

[RicksGTO]

Well, I got my head jammed way up there in between the clutch pedal and e-brake, far enough under there to look around the gauge pod and see the back of the vin plate and yes, they are the 6 sided rivet heads on the back of the tag. They have a slightly shiny hole in the middle of the flower and they are tight fitting and very old looking. Not like a standard round headed pop rivet. Rick

[Steve Hoog]

Due to Rick's effort I will now eat crow.

I was wrong in thinking this never happened, sorry.

I would still be cautious and climb under the dash to check one like this before buying. It should still have the star rivots, even if upside down.

I'm going to sit in the corner now....

[RicksGTO]

No problem Steve, I think I got blood going to parts of my head that actually needed it while I was inverted there! I think for the majority of years and plants, especially the '70's and newer, it really is supposed to be the rosettes showing on top on all cars, but in practice, not sure if all the plants did it the same all the time, especially prior to then. I'd like to see a poll on this topic but am not sure I want to open that can of worms or not as it tends to get all sorts of people worried about whether their car is retagged or not and on and on with confusion and I'm not sure anyone has the definative answers on it for all years/plants. Rick

[PMDRACER]

Enjoyed the thread so far guys!

As for strange factory occurences like this, a guy in my car club that I have known for 13 years has owned his '65 GTO since day one and is still 98% original. If you look at the body bolts that hold the inner fenderwells to the fenders, one side the bolts are installed upwards and the other side downwards.

I'd be curious of the build dates and the build sequence #'s of the cars with the upside down rivots. I'm thinking of the possibility of a shortage of rivots or something that caused a group of cars to have the glass installed before the VIN tags, necessitating a need for the VIN to be installed upside down.

[PB]

Hey Steve, glad you brought up the topic and this car still COULD have been rebodied.

I've learned over the years that factory workers did some very strange things AND just because something was supposed to installed a certain way dosn't mean it did.

One thing interesting that I'm talking about is on a 71 Judge a friend of mine bought. It still had orginal paint when we bought it. On the left rear quarter, the stripe on it looked funny to us. After looking at it for a while, it finally dawned on us....This stripe was actually a Right rear quarter stripe Straight from the factory. We have pics of it, I'll have to locate them.

My point, never say never and just because something was supposed to be dosn't mean it was... Just depended on the Day/month plant, if the factory worker was having a bad day/good day...whether it was a Monday morning or a Friday afternoon....All are factors back then when the line worker probably was more responsible for building of a car back then than cars now.

[CDN2PLS2]

PB's post reminded me of a rusted out original paint '72 gto that I looked at yrs ago.The stripe on one side was put on so far back,they had to tuck the end behind the rear bumper,must have been hung-over that morning!!

[poncho-mike]

You'd be surprised what they factory workers would do.

When I was a teenager, a friend's dad bought a new for (1974 or 75). It always had a rattle from the back driver's side. It was returned to the dealer on several occasions, but the dealer couldn't find anything.

My friend's dad was determined it was inside the panel. He finally forced the dealer to cut into the panel, and they found a coke bottle. There was no way the bottle could have been put there after the car left the factory. Somebody was too lazy to go put away a coke bottle, so they stuck it in the quarter panel. My friend's dad made the dealer replace the entire quarter panel and repaint the whole car.

Mike

[gloryrestoparts]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PMDRACER:
group of cars to have the glass installed before the VIN tags, necessitating a need for the VIN to be installed upside down. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep, thats what I've heard, specifically as it relates to Oldsmobiles and whether they were built at a BOP plant or an Olds only plant.

some the vin plates were installed before the windshield was installed, hence the plate sits above the tabs and the star is seen through the windshield. and some the windshield was installed first, then the vin plate was installed from under the dash and you obviously can't see the star of the rivets unless you crawl under the dash.

and of course like what was also mentioned, sometimes the workers, while looking at assembly manuals on the way things were supposed to be assembled said what the hell, it's monday and I'm hung over or it's friday or it's almost time for lunch, I'm just going to install it this way because I want to. Oh and I'm going to put this can in the drop off of the trunk and let some poor sap try to figure out what is rattling.

[Steve Hoog]

I don't know how other plants operated, but at 01 Pontiac this windsheild theory wouldn't work. As you can see from the layout below, the VIN tags were placed on the vehicle shortly after leaving the Body Plant but before entering the Assembly Plant. I am assuming the glass was installed in the Assembly Plant along with every other part.

[TTS]

I have a 72 Lemans with top mounted rivets. And a 71 with bottom mounted rivets. Someone may have already covered that.

[RAM AIR 1967]

One of the 3 455HO 4-speed Cpe are in Washington State.
Joe

[czar97]

Pic

[CDN2PLS2]

67RACONV
Please tell me more about that car.

[czar97]

If you’re asking for more information on my 72… here goes.

Uncle owned it for years. Then left it to rot in my grandma’s back yard. Planned on selling it for a couple hundred bucks (or having a yard come and take it out of my grandma’s yard). My Dad teaches auto mechanics and automotive tech at the local high school and college level.

I was 13 years old and he and I pulled the car out of grandma’s back yard. I worked construction with my stepfather for the next few summers, earning a weekly check and cashing it at the auto parts store on Friday’s. Learned a lot about the value of a dollar and hard work.

Summer 1: Engine rebuild: Stock 350 2 bbl. Dad wanted a safe dependable 300,000 mile car. (Drove his 72 olds 300,000 miles never had the heads off… swears by the old BOP 350’s. We saw a girl in the town that he sold it in driving around in the same car 10 years after he sold it… looked rough, but we like to think that it had the same engine). My 350 still runs smooth and steady.

Summer 2: Brakes. Converted front manual drums to power discs. Swiped spindles off an old olds for 50 bucks. All new brake components.

Summer 3: Started body work
Summer 4: Continued (God awful body work). Uncle convinced me that my dad and I could paint the car ourselves. Looking back he was right, the final coat is the easiest part. The paint job you see is 9 years old.

Wow, so there’s the history of the car you see above. The best memories I have with my dad.

[RAM AIR 1967]

If you pull the heater box off the firewall the vin #### will be stamped in the firewall.
Joe

[Lloyd-TX]

WW5 car, hopefully mine within a week or so!

Shadow Gold / Saddle

[4spdT37]

WOW,WOW,WOW!!!

Lloyd, that thing is super sharp!
If you get it, please start a new thread with
lots of pictures, as well as the details! WOW

[Lloyd-TX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by 4spdT37:
WOW,WOW,WOW!!!

Lloyd, that thing is super sharp!
If you get it, please start a new thread with
lots of pictures, as well as the details! WOW </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey Tom - thanks for the compliments - means a lot coming from you!

Vince thinks it's pretty sharp, too.

Will do on more pics if all goes well. Keep your fingers crossed for me, please.