[Fullsize455]

In my other thread about my 455 buildup - http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=617015 - I spoke of a RA IV engine that I would be buying.

Unfortunately, like so many things in like, it was too good to be true. The seller swore up and down that it was a RA IV, but upon delivery it turned out not to be. Bummer indeed, but not terribly surprising. That said, I still took it anyways, since even the crappiest of the crappy Pontiac motors is still worth more than I paid

So, here's the breakdown of what I got. The block is an XS, casting number 9790079, date code A249, which by my research seems to be a '69 265hp 350 block. Grrrrr... The guy swore up and down that it was a 400, and I trusted him, if for no other reason because it was so cheap. Ok, anyway, it does get better. The heads are #16, both date coded J047. By my research, that shows them to be a 1968 400 head, one of three possibilities - 335, 350 or 360hp, with 2.11/1.77 valves and ~72cc chambers. They do have screw in studs. It appears these were used on standard GTOs, but not Ram Air engines?

There's also a Holley Street Dominator big single plane aluminum intake on it with all the casting marks and numbers ground off. He says he didn't like to advertise, heh. The rear cam plug is removed, and per the numbers on the cam it appears to be a Comp Cams 268H, which is cool. Also included were a set of stamped roller rocker arms and beefier pushrods than my stockers. So, all in all, it's not the awesomeness that I hoped for, but it's still going to be a big help to me. This fellow purchased a well-built 400 from a friend of mine to replace this motor, and he said it ran well, but was tired.

Looks like the 350 blocks have a bore of 3.875", so it'd be pretty worthless as a builder I assume. I suppose I'll sell that to someone who just needs a motor bad and doesn't care about displacement.

As far as these heads, they should be worth something decent, you think? Can't use them on my 455 obviously, because of the small chambers, but somebody with a GTO ought to want them I would think.

Ok, sorry for the long post, but my question at the end of the night is, is my research accurate on these parts? Are they what I have researched them to be? Thanks!

[b-man]

Your assesment seems pretty accurate.

The #16 heads are worth at least a few hundred bucks, good big-valve high-compression 400 heads.

The 350 block is almost given away these days, but it makes a nice small-cube engine especially with the 4.00" stroker cranks now available to make a 383. With 400 and 455 blocks starting to become rare the 350s will be looked into more and more.

The RAIV heads will stand out right away from the common D-port heads with their pretty much perfectly round exhaust ports, spaced nicely apart on the two center ports unlike the D-ports that are crammed close together.

Every 'great deal' on Pontiac heads or engines these days seems like it's supposed to be a RAIV from their uneducated owners.

[PunchT37]

Yep. Looks like you got a 350 with a decent d-port head. You`ll have to get a 400 or larger block to get the cubes you want. Unless you want to build a 383 out of the 350.

[se428bandit]

Why not just build the 350 with a stroker kit.
http://www.pacificperformanceracing.com/

[Fullsize455]

Why would I build a small inch 350 stroker(resulting in 383 cubes) when I can build a 494 with my original 455 block? That's definitely the way that I would go here. Remember, much like Grandville455, I will be pushing around a 4600 pound car - I need all the torque I can get! Think about it this way.. Cadillac made a 500 cubic inch motor in the '70s because their cars were monstrous, so they needed to make big power to still move them well. The Cadillac 500ci for 1970 made 400 horses and 550 foot pounds stock(gross, I know), with a smooth idle, streetable compression and it looked the same as every other Caddy motor. That's what I'm shooting for here - Truly every day streetable, very mild manners, but BIG on power/torque. I know it can be done, and I want to do it, but with a Pontiac because I love the song that a nice Pontiac V8 sings!

My goal is to make as much power/torque that I can while maintaining a smooth idle, streetable compression ratio and showing only Pontiac parts on the outside(ie Pontiac heads, intake, etc.. no aftermarket parts showing to betray what lies within). There's no way that 383 cubes will be enough to satisfy my goal while meeting all that criteria. I'm thinking that a 494 will be

I'll probably hang on to the 350 short block just in case I come across someone who wants a 350 specifically. If nothing else, it would make a good mockup block if I ever need one. Coffee table? hehehe...

So, anyone interested in the heads?

[grandville455]

You don't need a 494 .... My 464 was enough in my car in the beginning with a small summit 214/224 cam holley 780 vac sec carb, shorty headers, 2.93 one wheel wonder, no conv,ported 6x -8 heads to go 14.8@94... it was a very fun car to drive, had plenty of power to have fun on the street etc!...

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by grandville455

You don't need a 494 .... My 464 was enough in my car in the beginning with a small summit 214/224 cam holley 780 vac sec carb, shorty headers, 2.93 one wheel wonder, no conv,ported 6x -8 heads to go 14.8@94... it was a very fun car to drive, had plenty of power to have fun on the street etc!...

Hey, Good morning!

Did that cam give you a stock or nearly so idle quality? I can imagine those shorty headers would be a big advantage over stock manifolds, which I will be keeping. I know my stock manifolds will hold it way back in the top end, but will they be a big restriction when trying to build low end torque as well?

[grandville455]

Yea It didn't have much if anything to it, I mean u could tell it had a slight idle,but that was it. If u don't ever plan on racing it I wouldn't worry about the manifolds etc, but those shorty's are nice and u can drop the engine in with them already on, And I have some nice 3" down pipes that will bolt right to them that came off my car if interested! also your 71 isn't going to be as heavy as mine was as u don't have those heavy front and rear bumpers etc, Mine was close to 4900 when i first got it so that should help too. Do U have pics of your car?

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by grandville455

Yea It didn't have much if anything to it, I mean u could tell it had a slight idle,but that was it. If u don't ever plan on racing it I wouldn't worry about the manifolds etc, but those shorty's are nice and u can drop the engine in with them already on, And I have some nice 3" down pipes that will bolt right to them that came off my car if interested! also your 71 isn't going to be as heavy as mine was as u don't have those heavy front and rear bumpers etc, Mine was close to 4900 when i first got it so that should help too. Do U have pics of your car?

I'd prefer a stock idle quality, if at all possible. I was thinking that a typical "RV" type grind would be the best for my purposes. Obviously it leaves a lot on the table, but I want a smooth idle. I don't plan on doing much racing, but I would like to track it every so often. Not as much as you, that's for sure! I definitely want to keep the stock manifolds, as I want to keep it as close to stock looking under the hood, and I don't much care for headers anyway - They tend to be louder and have problems sealing, which my manifolds don't, so I'd really like to stick to manifolds. Are there any better D-port stock manifolds out there than the stock ones on my '71, or were they all pretty much the same?

I do have some pictures, but I'll have to dig them up and post them later tonight, gotta head to work for now! Thanks to everyone for the advice

[BVR421]

In the last 10 years Ive had a 1979 Eldorado with a 350 Olds and a 1979 Fleetwood with a 425 BBCad. Both used as commuter cars. I could never tell a lick of difference in normal street or highway performance between the two cars.
My 74 Grand Ville with 455 is way snappier than either Cad at about the same weight but its really more than I would call necessary.
Point is, it doesnt necessarily take big cubes to have a satisfying street car. BTW, the Cadillacs both got quite a bit better mileage that the Grand Ville.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by BVR421

In the last 10 years Ive had a 1979 Eldorado with a 350 Olds and a 1979 Fleetwood with a 425 BBCad. Both used as commuter cars. I could never tell a lick of difference in normal street or highway performance between the two cars.
My 74 Grand Ville with 455 is way snappier than either Cad at about the same weight but its really more than I would call necessary.
Point is, it doesnt necessarily take big cubes to have a satisfying street car. BTW, the Cadillacs both got quite a bit better mileage that the Grand Ville.

I'm not concerned about mileage in the slightest. If I was, I wouldn't have put 49k miles on my Bonnie over the last four years! I have always been impressed by the snappiness of my very mild 455 in my Bonnie, but it just doesn't move the way that I want it to. I'm not the first person to get this need for speed, you know

Edit: none of this is at all necessary, but that's never been the point, nor will it ever be. I will be a LOT happier with my car if it made a lot more power than it does now.

[b-man]

Here's the most recent addition to the 'Street Engine' sticky thread, a nice 455 intended for installation in a big Pontiac: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=104

I'd look into building something similar to this one, not a lot of exotic parts and very well-matched. Something powerful that you could drive anywhere, just do some simple maintenance from time to time and enjoy it.....

[BVR421]

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=104
that seems like a huge cam for a street 455-to each his own

Ive always thought a great motor for a frequently driven big car would be a simple 455 with good rods , pistons, 068 cam and a Pontiac Dude blower. stock manners and huge power

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by b-man

Here's the most recent addition to the 'Street Engine' sticky thread, a nice 455 intended for installation in a big Pontiac: http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...&postcount=104

I'd look into building something similar to this one, not a lot of exotic parts and very well-matched. Something powerful that you could drive anywhere, just do some simple maintenance from time to time and enjoy it.....

I'd like to see what kind of power/torque that combo would make with a more mild, "smooth idle" cam. That's definitely way too much cam for me.

[b-man]

Just go down one size on the cam then, the rest of that engine looks great.

Go with the Crower 60242 - 221/229 456"/468" 112

455s can absorb a pretty good-sized cam and still have a lot of low-end torque, but sometimes it's better to err on the smaller side for a heavy street car.

[Fullsize455]

Originally Posted by b-man

Just go down one size on the cam then, the rest of that engine looks great.

Go with the Crower 60242 - 221/229 456"/468" 112

455s can absorb a pretty good-sized cam and still have a lot of low-end torque, but sometimes it's better to err on the smaller side for a heavy street car.

I'd probably go lower than that still, as I want to make SURE my idle is smooth. Two reasons why, the first and more important being that I simply want this to be a nice, smooth, quiet car that I won't get tired of cruising every day, but I still want it to make a LOT of power. The second reason is that I do very much want the sleeper factor, and that means I need an idle as smooth as stock or nearly so.

[grandville455]

I wouldn't go any lower than that If I were you.. That cam That bman recommended is a good cam and the 455 will eat up those duration numbers, It should idle easily with 14-15 inches of vac set the cam at 108 or so.. hell if u want A fun street car put in the 2.75 low gear set like i did! that makes for a very fun street car!.. what gears do u have?