About Us

Skip Fix · 11-30-2002, 09:16 PM

How many of you guys are running restrictors to the cam bearings from the main bearings? Mondello does that to the Olds that have a similar oil system. I've seen it in an old RAV block an done Super Stock racer I talked to does it.

Any thoughts?

Skip Fix · 11-30-2002, 09:16 PM

How many of you guys are running restrictors to the cam bearings from the main bearings? Mondello does that to the Olds that have a similar oil system. I've seen it in an old RAV block an done Super Stock racer I talked to does it.

Any thoughts?

Tom McQueen · 12-01-2002, 10:35 AM

I think it would depend on valve spring pressures and useage(street or strip). I just finished researching the needle bearing type cam bearings I am going to use. One of the big benefits is an average ~20 degree drop in oil temperature. Those babbit type cam bearings generate some heat, and if you restrict the oil flow, more heat will be the result. Just my .02.

Half-Inch Stud · 12-03-2002, 08:24 AM

Tom,

Would you email me some of your findings on self-heating from sleeve bearings.

Regards,
H-I. Stud

"11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/472 #48/Flat HYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

Skip Fix · 12-03-2002, 09:40 AM

Tom, I talked to one Super Stocker who is using those bearings and has had some problem with the rear bearing feed hole being drilled at an angle from the factory and when bored out it goes where the oil would leak out.

Half-Inch Stud · 12-03-2002, 09:52 AM

I asked ( 2 weeks back) if the rear bearing is left alone, during this cam bearing upgrade.
Less machinework, etc. I say leave that last one alone....Mostly because it never shows failure.

Half-Inch Stud

LouisianaGuy · 12-03-2002, 02:19 PM

Saw some guys at the Machine shop putting some of those nice neetle bearings into a SB Cheby 350,,Block was one of the Rocket blocks made by Oldsmobile..but it was not one of the old school 350 rockets, had sealed up lifter Valley with 1 hole in frount and one in rear, said ya pump the oil in and suck it out. Also said the block weightd 50 lbs more than a stock 350 block due to the extra meat around the cyl, so he could bore it more. Needless to say guy that owned the motor told me this was his 3rd neetle cam bearing set up and he said they work Great and he had no problems with them. He also told me he had 90K in the Motor and Twin turbos and all of the goodies going on it :P Seems kinda high to me but he was running in the low to mid 6 second range. least that is what the guys at the shop said.
Mike

AIR RAM · 12-03-2002, 08:06 PM

I have also been teasing myself with the thought of installing the needle bearing's. I heard the set up cost up towards 700.00. What have you found out so far. I know you need a special cam that will work with the new bearings but the thought of a 20 degree drop in temp sound worth it never mind the the fact that you could get away with restricting the oil flow to the bearings and keep it where we need it. I would realy like to know more.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM

Im putting together a .040 455 with Edelbrock heads (72cc), Eagle Rods, FLAT top Pistons for 12:1, Harland sharp roller Rockers, Fluidampner, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and 750 Demon Carb. "GOT TRACTION"

LouisianaGuy · 12-03-2002, 10:12 PM

Not to mention the fact that the friction reduction would add a few ponies..seen the fellas slide the cam in and give it a test spin..the fella said watch this Zinggggg...gave it a spin by had and it set there spinning for damn near close to a minute..that has to count for some rolling friction resistance. The cam looked to be a regular unit, but i was told they had to do some extensive machining to that block to get them to work like they are supposed to. i can get some more info from the fella if anyone would like and post it. Least it would be 1st hand account from some one who has run them several times [img]/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]
Mike

AIR RAM · 12-03-2002, 10:18 PM

I would like to learn all about it. Im going to try every trick in the book with my 455 as long as it is worth it. From what I read and heard the bearings offer more than less friction, less stress on the timming chain alowing it to live longer. Im sure there would be other benifits also.

SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM

Im putting together a .040 455 with Edelbrock heads (72cc), Eagle Rods, FLAT top Pistons for 12:1, Harland sharp roller Rockers, Fluidampner, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, and 750 Demon Carb. "GOT TRACTION"

Tom McQueen · 12-03-2002, 11:39 PM

My only research on the needle type cam bearings involved speaking to guys actually using them in motors built in their shop. These guys tend to see these engines periodically, and if there was a reliability issue with the bearings, they would be seeing some evidence of that. Now I havent spoken to more than 4 shops (Ive called more than that but its not easy finding one that actually does this work and is willing to share information), but all the feedback was good. The drop in oil temperature was noted by a shop that participated in a magazine article on what these bearings were all about and how to properly install them. Theres the rub. This is a procedure not a lot of machine shops can claim they have done, let alone mastered. And if the installation isnt right it could end up being a costly mistake. At this point I have not chosen a machine shop to do my shortblock. But I do have a shortlist, and it will be another 2 months before Im ready

Half-Inch Stud · 12-04-2002, 10:01 AM

Soooo, can these needle bearings be used on Rods and Mains?

Why not, and why pick the Cam as needing them. I do not see the GAINS. Rather I see a Cam that spins quickly with no Valvespring load.
--------------------------------------------------
Could be a rather telling story to torque-wrench 2 oil-primed valvetrains to see about comparing the two cam bearing types.

I tink reduced (optimized) valvespring pressure and oil pump size&pressure has a more immediate torque-wrench reduction in the valvetrain power-loss budget.

I would consider the needle cam bearings on a block that was great, yet had some sort of cam-tunnel problem. Peace of mind too, if those needle bearings are known to keep going and going and going.

H-I.

"11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/472 #48/Flat HYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

Tom McQueen · 12-04-2002, 08:01 PM

Lots of engines (motorcycle) were made with press together cranks using roller bearings on the rods and mains. If you went after serious HP with them you had to weld the pins, but they worked. I built several.
Clearly there ARE gains to be had. If not, they wouldnt be used by NASCAR engine builders, Outlaw sprint racers, salt flat racers, etc. I agree that the majority of street engines would not see a gain that would justify the cost. In my case, Im looking to use a fairly aggressive solid roller. Big lift with a fairly short duration. Spring pressure will be quite a bit higher than anything Ive used in the past. This (along with some other things Im doing) is an attempt at gaining some longevity in the valvetrain

Tim Corcoran · 12-05-2002, 06:07 PM

There is a shop here in Phoenix that does the roller bearing cam set up on a regular basis for some high end guys. He swears buy the set up. This guy is no ordinary machinest. I haven't asked him about price though. I am sure it's out of my price range.

Tim C

65 LeMans, 3700lb. all steel, full interior, D-ports and a flat tappet cam, 11.06@122

Tom McQueen · 12-06-2002, 12:39 AM

Tim, if you wouldnt mind, drop me an E-mail with the name of the shop you spoke of.

KEN CROCIE · 12-09-2002, 01:17 AM

Roller cam bearings are used primarily on big roller cams with lots of spring pressure.It's the start up of the engine that kills the plain bearings.

Half-Inch Stud · 12-09-2002, 08:59 AM

KEN,

your reply makes the most sense for that cam bearing upgrade.

High spring-load with no oil pressure and no rotation yields metal-metal contact at start-up. I can dig it.

"11.00/123MPH/1.50 60foot/29.5"/4.10:1/10"/472 #48/Flat HYD/DualQuad/Wenzler/3250Lbs
12.00/112MPH/1.61 60foot/26"/3.31:1/10"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3650Lbs
12.70/103MPH/1.71 60foot/28"/4.10:1/12"/472 #48/FlatHYD/Q-Jet/Torker/3950Lbs"

Wade Congdon · 12-13-2002, 01:49 PM

See Tom Wilhites installation in this months PE. I want to clarify a few things for the reader. With respect to the installation of the BOP belt drive, the article states the cam tunnel block needed to be machined to ensure proper positioning. This is true only for the tall deck version of the Indian Adventures block. The belt drive will fit onto any standard deck IA or stock block with no block modifications. The problem stems from an excessive tolerance (+.010) on the crank to cam centerline on the tall deck print. Indian Adventures has been made aware of this problem and has taken steps to correct it in their next run.

The problem can be corrected by moving the crank centerline up using an align bore or as in Tom’s case moving the cam tunnel down. The proper centerline measurement should be 5.578 inches. In either case it would be prudent to check the lifter centerline to cam centerline and machine if necessary. We have the fixturing to perform this operation, which would entail either bushing the lifter bores, or using oversized lifters. I should mention that we also supplied the cam bearings and require a cam with an oversized cam bearing journal. We supply these cams finished to the customer’s specs or in a roughed version.

Wade Congdon
BOP Engineering
Hi-Performance Specialty Parts for Buick, Olds, and Pontiac
www.bopengineering.com

77TA · 03-29-2003, 09:59 PM

I tore my engine down and found the three center cam bearings had very small .030-.050 guess here holes for oil. The first and last were normal. It may be becasue the shop had to align bore the three center bearings cause the cam was binding off. " the cam bearings were bought oversided to do this" The cam was turning free and the bearings and cam journals looked fine I think they smeared the babbit over the oil holes during the boring process. I opened the holes up some before I put the cam back in cause it scared me the cam could not have been getting much oil as they were They are still smaller than normal but it was diffcult to do in the block and I did not wnat any flakes in the oil system although I'm sure a couple small flakes got in anyway. The rest of engine looked good. Maybe this is why my oil pressure has been so good with .0025-.003 clearance ?? I will be puckerd up some till its got a few running miles on it thats for sure !!

PONTIAC DUDE · 04-01-2003, 05:51 AM

I can't believe that no one runs the coated cam bearings if you feel you have a problem. A lot cheaper then a roller set up that 99% of the Pontiac population will never run.
I have never in 35 years of racing and building, seen a cam bearing totally fail.

Build it fast, build it right, build a Pontiac.

http://PontiacDude.cc

Menu

About Us