[jhein]

Lot's of good discussions about fuel systems going on. I think I need an upgrade, and I have a plan. But before I do anything I'd like to hear what people think. You can see my specs in my signature.

Option 1. RobbMc 550 hp pump with new 1/2 inch line from tank to pump with RobbMc 1/2 inch pickup.

Option 2. Install an external electric pump and regulator and keep everything else the same.

Option 3. Install a small electric feeder pump to supplement my current system with no other changes.

Option 1 would be the most expensive but I think would be effective and reliable. This is my current plan.

Option 2 may be slightly less expensive but possible issues with noise and reliability (maybe just my perception).

Option 3 would be the least expensive but may not work. But, from a cost and reliability standpoint, it could solve my problem, and if it ever failed would not leave me stranded.

There is an option 4, which would be to just upgrade my fuel line to 1/2 inch from the pickup to the pump. I base that on the fact that on the Dyno, the pump I have seemed to keep up, but with a very short short supply line.

[Charlie Brengun]

I'm planning the same and are going for option 1 with some sort of fuel pressure regulator near the carb.

[JLMounce]

Option 5: EFI ready fuel tank with an in-tank pump with fuel lines plumbed through a bypass regulator. This option would cost around $200.00 more than option 1. It does a couple things for you. The internal pump will radically reduce fuel starvation that can still occur at lower fuel levels even with the 1/2" sender. Use a genuine Walbro 255 pump inside the sump and it'll be quiet and flow enough fuel to support roughly 650hp at 7psi of pressure. If your existing 3/8" fuel line is in good condition, you can likely use it instead of running new 1/2" lines.

If by some change of heart or necessity, you find yourself moving to EFI, you're already setup for it. Change the spring in the bypass regulator and you're EFI fuel system ready.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Option 5: EFI ready fuel tank with an in-tank pump with fuel lines plumbed through a bypass regulator. This option would cost around $200.00 more than option 1. It does a couple things for you. The internal pump will radically reduce fuel starvation that can still occur at lower fuel levels even with the 1/2" sender. Use a genuine Walbro 255 pump inside the sump and it'll be quiet and flow enough fuel to support roughly 650hp at 7psi of pressure. If your existing 3/8" fuel line is in good condition, you can likely use it instead of running new 1/2" lines.

If by some change of heart or necessity, you find yourself moving to EFI, you're already setup for it. Change the spring in the bypass regulator and you're EFI fuel system ready.

Hmm... Option 5. Darn it.

[ZeGermanHam]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Option 5: EFI ready fuel tank with an in-tank pump with fuel lines plumbed through a bypass regulator. This option would cost around $200.00 more than option 1. It does a couple things for you. The internal pump will radically reduce fuel starvation that can still occur at lower fuel levels even with the 1/2" sender. Use a genuine Walbro 255 pump inside the sump and it'll be quiet and flow enough fuel to support roughly 650hp at 7psi of pressure. If your existing 3/8" fuel line is in good condition, you can likely use it instead of running new 1/2" lines.

If by some change of heart or necessity, you find yourself moving to EFI, you're already setup for it. Change the spring in the bypass regulator and you're EFI fuel system ready.

This is what I was going to say. I'm not a fan of external electric fuel pumps on street cars. They're noisy and add clutter. I have an EFI tank and bypass as JLMounce describes and it's great.

[Jim Moshier]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

This is what I was going to say. I'm not a fan of external electric fuel pumps on street cars. They're noisy and add clutter. I have an EFI tank and bypass as JLMounce describes and it's great.

X3 on this Option. I will be going this route in my current project.

Jim

[RocktimusPryme]

I went through all of this with my car. Took it in steps with option 1. Then upgraded from the 550 to 1000 pump. Installed the vent line like Robb wanted and still had issues at the track with starvation.

Went to a tanks Inc setup and it solved my issues.

If I weren’t going to go all the way with the tanks Inc setup I would go the Aux pump option.

I never ever had an issue on the street. So I would just use a pump I could switch on when needed.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

I went through all of this with my car. Took it in steps with option 1. Then upgraded from the 550 to 1000 pump. Installed the vent line like Robb wanted and still had issues at the track with starvation.

Went to a tanks Inc setup and it solved my issues.

If I weren’t going to go all the way with the tanks Inc setup I would go the Aux pump option.

I never ever had an issue on the street. So I would just use a pump I could switch on when needed.

What are the basic details of your motor?

[Formulajones]

JLMounce already laid out what I've said for a long time. It's the way I've done cars for more than a decade now if I even think a mechanical pump will be marginal at best.

Tanks Inc makes it easy and the neat thing is on the second gens you can increase the fuel capacity at the same time as they offer a tank that holds a couple more gallons. Wish they had that option on more models.

[Cliff R]

Absolutely and for sure IF you are going to race the car with good traction using a mechanical pump isn't going to make the grade. I tried EVERYTHING listed above and still had fuel delivery issues on really hard runs at the track until I installed a sump on the bottom of the stock tank and moved the 140GPH electric pump behind the tank and 8AN lines/fittings everywhere. During the sump install I cut the bottom of the tank on 3 sides and bent the metal up to make an accelleration baffle to help force feed the rear mounted electric pmp.

Ya, I know, about the time I type this someone will come on with a "story" about running deep into the 10's back in the day with a stock mechanical pump and 5/16" stock fuel lines.

I will admit that I never had any issues on the street with any of the set-ups I tried. I even installed big fuel lines, pusher pump, reloated larger in tank pick-up, 120gph mechanical pump with and w/o a "pusher" pump, and SOB I still ran into issues at the track right at the top of low gear on a hard run.

The instant I went to a sumped tank to help feed a rear located electric pump ALL fuel delivery related issues went away forever. I went on to win the Norwalk race 5 times with two trips to the King of the Hill race. I also won quite a few other races including a big Import/Muscle car challenge with nearly 500 cars in attendence. Lost count of how many "gamblers" races I won at our local track on Friday night, a couple were "box and no box" running together.

The car not only quit having fuel delivery issues after the changes it became DEADLY consistent run to run. At a minimum I'd go in tank and preferably with some sort of accelleration baffle system or rear sump and rear mounted electric pump so it's force fed on hard runs.

With all that said IF racing the car with good traction isn't on the menue you can get away with much less.........

[OCMDGTO]

X10 if you want to do it right once get the Tanks setup with 8an feed and return, good regulator, and I'd go a step up from their 255lph pump. I wish I would have done this from the start and saved myself a ton of aggravation and $$$$$.

[78w72]

as cliff said, all depends on if you plan to drag race or auto-x the car. if its a street car then the robbmc stuff will work great, probably even just a carter/holly/edelbrock pump will be ok.

my 500+hp car is mostly a street car & the edelbrock pump did perfectly fine on the street, ran deadhead with no regulator at ~6psi. but at the track with drag radials even at low 12's it had starvation issues with the robbmc pickup, 1/2" & -8 lines from tank to carb.

i changed to the robbmc 1100 pump but dialed all the way down to ~7psi, no regulator & deadheaded, car went mid to low 11's the very next time out with no other engine/fuel changes & will do low 11's consistently... but on a hard launch it will have some starvation issues still. i added a regulator & upped the psi to about 9-10 but still can have problems. ive hit a wall on the times but am very happy with how the car runs at the track or on the street so im on the fence about changing to a tanks inc set up if i want to go faster.

so racing the car or increasing power or going to EFI, tanks in set up is probably the best bet, & you get a new baffled tank if yours is older. if your tank is in good shape there are other options to retrofit an intank electric from holley or areomotive has some nice looking phantom stuff, even an internal bypass set up if you dont want to run bypass lines.

if no plans for racing the robbmc 550 or 1100 with their pick up will be more than adequate for the street or even mild drag use, if you dont want to mess with 1/2" pickup & lines, the high flow mech pumps mentioned will work fine on the street at your power current sub 500hp too.

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by jhein

What are the basic details of your motor?

Its the same basic formula most other people have. A 400 based stroker. Mild Roller cam. Older bathtub round port E heads with mild porting and an Edelbrock RPM with a port match for 300 CFM heads. At the time I had a Q jet. I have a Terminator X now.

Two things that are educated speculation.

1. I feel like the baffled talk that you get from the Tanks Inc setup might be a larger part of the equation than it gets credit for. The thing is though that nobody buys the baffled tank and then doesnt go with an in tank pump.

2. I feel like a Holley with its larger bowls and two needles/seats would likely mask an inferior supply system better than the Q jet. So I think you might be able to get away with a Robb MC pump on its own better with a Holley. Even more so if you were running a dual quad setup. David Freiburger (sp?) just did his 8 second Model A with a deadhead mechanical setup, but I think that having a sumped fuel cell and dual quad tunnel ram probably helped that deal a lot.

[jhein]

Well that's nearly unanimous that the in tank electric is the way to go. I understand what guys are saying about street vs race. Am I gonna race it and try to be competitive? No, but I would like to see what it can do just for fun. Although my driving will be the weakest link in that equation...

However, it will still probably be better overall with not having to prime the carb or crank it forever after sitting for a while and just taking fuel supply issues out of the equation.

I was thinking I should probably put an access door in the trunk too.

Do you think I'll still need a bigger line to the motor or will the factory 3/8 suffice? Tanks sells a kit with the regulator, filter and line included, or Classic Tube will make a steel 1/2 line.

[JLMounce]

You should be okay with the 3/8 line. The biggest reason for the 1/2" line with the mechanical pump is the fact that you're sucking fuel through the line instead of pushing it through.

[jhein]

Well, of all the options I didn't even include "option 5" because that was the least attractive to me at the time but I've been swayed. I ordered everything today from Tanks. Thankfully, it was all in stock. Set me back a cool grand, so it was definitely the most expensive option. But at least I shouldn't have to do it again.

And FWIW, the kit they sell for a carb application has a 3/8 line from the tank to the carb which their guy said would be sufficient. But, I'm probably gonna ry to leave as much of my stock line in place and only use their lines where I need to, like from the tank to the regulator.

[Formulajones]

You made the best choice, you won't regret it.

Just to add to your comment earlier, yes I generally do the trap door in the trunk. It makes it so easy to swap the pump. In fact I had an inop pump after install. Only to find out the wires pushed out of the connector when I plugged it in and I didn't catch that. The wires weren't fully seated and snapped into the connector. Just an odd occurrence, but the fact that I had a trap door made the fix literally a 5 minute deal.

Dad had a pump that was slowly dying so I swapped that for him. He had a full tank of gas but didn't matter. Opened the trap door and had the pump swapped in about 15 minutes. Don't even have to lay on the ground or get under the car.

[JLMounce]

I'm not necessarily familiar with the 2nd gen mounting for the tank, but the first gens are very easy to remove and service.

I had to replace the fuel level sender last year and it was a 30 minute job total. I do have a lift with a jacking tray, which does make life a bit easier though.

I do think you'll be really happy you went this route. Having that fuel pump, submerged in fuel and in a sump just has too many benefits, even when using a carb.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

You made the best choice, you won't regret it.

Just to add to your comment earlier, yes I generally do the trap door in the trunk. It makes it so easy to swap the pump. In fact I had an inop pump after install. Only to find out the wires pushed out of the connector when I plugged it in and I didn't catch that. The wires weren't fully seated and snapped into the connector. Just an odd occurrence, but the fact that I had a trap door made the fix literally a 5 minute deal.

Dad had a pump that was slowly dying so I swapped that for him. He had a full tank of gas but didn't matter. Opened the trap door and had the pump swapped in about 15 minutes. Don't even have to lay on the ground or get under the car.

Yep, I got the door too.

[roy381]

You folks talked me into going the same route. The benefit of a new tank replacing a 50-year-old tank and all the other pluses you folks mentioned swayed me. Just ordered mine from Speedway Motors.
Was $425 shipped for the kit (tank, pump, sending unit) for my 67 gto.

Thanks everyone