[KEN CROCIE]

Thanks Jay S. My goof. I should know better.

[GOAT8U2]

What converter are you running now?
What's the footbrake stall rpm?
Have you roughly calculated efficiency up top using rpm, mph, tire height and rear gear?

You might not need to change and can save up for a better converter later.

There are a few converters for the 200-4r the GN guys run, a couple aren't commonly known....
Stock D5 (came in GN)
PTC
Revolution X
Dave Husek
Art Carr
Many many more by the big brands and varying price range.

[Steve C.]

I see Art Carr mentioned above. A related tid bit, I presume it might be the same today but years ago according to Art Carr, the fuel economy to be gained by a lock-up converter may not be so great.
A few percent may not be worth it, especially involving issues with the transmission torque converter clutch (TCC).

This from Cliff Ruggles years ago, but I don't know how he feels about it today:

"I've tried using a TCC for retrofits into older cars, and like the non L/U deal a LOT better.
A high quality torque converter with efficient characteristics is required, but the whole deal makes using OD's in older vehicles much easier"

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=558807


.

[nh68gto]

20412 B&m in th400
I don’t know any of the other things you are asking.


QUOTE=GOAT8U2;6491750]What converter are you running now?
What's the footbrake stall rpm?
Have you roughly calculated efficiency up top using rpm, mph, tire height and rear gear?

You might not need to change and can save up for a better converter later.

There are a few converters for the 200-4r the GN guys run, a couple aren't commonly known....
Stock D5 (came in GN)
PTC
Revolution X
Dave Husek
Art Carr
Many many more by the big brands and varying price range.[/QUOTE]

[nh68gto]

Haven’t committed on a trans yet. Had lead on good used one but has sold. Is stock, lock up or not ?

As I’ve stated. I don’t know the transmission world at all. The stall, lock up and such unknown area to me.

[nh68gto]

Haven’t committed on a trans yet. Had lead on good used one but has sold. Is stock, lock up or not ?

As I’ve stated. I don’t know the transmission world at all. The stall, lock up and such unknown area to me.

[b-man]

Cheapest alternative might be to just run a TH350 or TH400 and skip the overdrive. Then use the B&M torque converter you already have.

Swap to a 3.08 rear gear and there’s your highway cruising gear.

I decided to save money and simplify my build by skipping the overdrive and run a TH350 with a 2.56 8.2 open rear in my mild 421 powered Le Mans convertible. Later on I’ll swap in a corporate 8.5 10-bolt and use a 2.73 gear and factory posi that I have sitting around.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by nh68gto

Haven’t committed on a trans yet. Had lead on good used one but has sold. Is stock, lock up or not ?

As I’ve stated. I don’t know the transmission world at all. The stall, lock up and such unknown area to me.

Do you currently have a transmission available to you to use, or do you need to get one for the project?

You have a lot of "I don't know" answers, which is fine, but simply jumping into something that you don't know may brake the budget you're on...probably having to do things multiple times.

Most people don't recommend 200r4's behind Pontiac engines without a somewhat serious level of build on the transmission. Some have done it to success however, but my personal feeling is that this transmission is a toss-up on reliability behind the type of power plant you've built.

Art Carr can build a good one, but you're talking about $3000+ just for the transmission.

I really like B-man's response above. Source a decent th400 or th350, run the converter you already have and put a 3.08 in the rear. This will offer you the best combination of cost, performance and highway drivability. Heck, even the 3.23 isn't going to be terrible, especially if you're running a 27 or 28" tire.

See how you like that and you can always continue to inform yourself on other options that you can add later.

[Formulajones]

I'll share my experiences with lockup converters and maybe it'll help you make that decision.

I prefer to use a lockup converter any time an auto overdrive is in the picture. Many benefits.
How it's controlled however plays a roll. With the 200's you're looking at more of a mechanical antiquated control setup with a vacuum switch etc... the only issue with this is limited adjustability. There is some with the vacuum switch but the range is small. Works perfectly fine on mild builds but when you get into more rambunctious builds this type of lockup control can become limited in its ability to satisfy most.
In those cases some may decide to just add an on off switch or just eliminate lockup all together. The issue I have with a simple switch is having to remember to turn it on and off and if you just want to use it on the highway or limited use then you miss some benefits.

Electronic control is a different ball game. I can now infinitely tune the lock up control and Taylor it to any particular engine to work perfectly with pretty rowdy setups. We are using a pair of 4l80E's in cars that make over 700hp N/A and the lockup works beautiful.
This is one of the advantages of electronic controlled transmissions.

You'll have to make a determination how rowdy your setup is and whether or not the more antiquated lockup control will work ok in your situation with that 200.

Typically it's ok with mild builds.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by nh68gto

What’s PTC ?

Performance Torhttp://ptcrace.com/que Converters in Alabama.

The best converter I have ever bought.

[Formulajones]

The 3 speed idea isn't a bad way to go. Depends how performance oriented you are. Since you stated no racing, just a cruiser, numerically low rear gears and a 3 speed gets the job done.
3.23's aren't bad, I'd be inclined to leave that be. Dad bought his 69 GTO new with 3.23's and daily drove it for 20 years and put 180,000 miles on it like that. 70 mph and 3000 rpm everywhere. That motor still ran decent when we pulled it.

Anyway, even a 3.08 setup will still buzz on the highway so it doesn't really keep things quiet and there is still wear and tear. It's nothing close to what an overdrive will do for you but it works well enough when on A budget.

You'll have to weigh how much you actually plan to drive the car too. 1,000 miles or even 2000 miles a year? I wouldn't even bother with the overdrive idea. If you're like me and put 6000 to 10,000 miles a year on the car, then yeah I'd be doing the overdrive.

[nh68gto]

Good info guys and appreciate it. I’ve tried to learn it’s just not a comfort zone. Want a kitchen or bath remodeled, I got you. Lol.

Anyway. Th400 in the car now is slipping bad. I’ve call local shops and the online guys everything is $1800+ , no one does a rebuild for $800 anymore. So figured gain the OD if spending the money. But then it’s a shifter, converter, cables, adds up fast.

I’m not sure I wanna gamble with a used unit.
I’ll keep looking around and look at the options given.

[nh68gto]

Good info guys and appreciate it. I’ve tried to learn it’s just not a comfort zone. Want a kitchen or bath remodeled, I got you. Lol.

Anyway. Th400 in the car now is slipping bad. I’ve call local shops and the online guys everything is $1800+ , no one does a rebuild for $800 anymore. So figured gain the OD if spending the money. But then it’s a shifter, converter, cables, adds up fast.

I’m not sure I wanna gamble with a used unit.
I’ll keep looking around and look at the options given.

[Formulajones]

Ah since you actually need a transmission that would change my decision making. Yes I'd lean more towards an overdrive in that case. More up front vs a rebuild on a 400 but the difference wouldn't sway me to keep the 3 speed at this point.
That's just me. Hope it works out for you.

[JLMounce]

If you are needing a trans anyway, biting the bullet on a 4 speed makes sense. The problem is you're going to have to find an build a trans regardless. You're going to be in the 2-3K range for that, regardless of transmission, depending on how it's built. A stock 4l80e would do well in your application. You may need to look, but if you can find a workable 2wd rebuildable core, I think you'd be in it for about 2K including the core cost.

The factory 4l80e torque converter would probably be excellent in your combination as well.

There is some added cost involved here outside of a 200r4 or 700r4. That being the electronics to control it, TPS sensor and the need for an aftermarket cross-member. I don't know what your budget is so it's hard to say if it fits.

I'd look at a 700r4 as well, but you'll need some performance upgrades to that one. Probably a beast shell, kevlar bands and a servo upgrade at minimum. What you don't spend on the electronics and cross-member, you end up spending on trans upgrades. The 200r4 is in the same category there.

My 4l80e swap came in around $5300. That was the core, performance rebuild that included an HD2 shift kit, pump mods and extra friction, crossmember, electronics and everything installed. It also included a spendy TSP converter that you don't need here. If you're comfortable doing the work yourself (I wish I did) you likely knock $1000-$1200 off that price tag.

[Steve C.]

Swapping a 700-r4 or 200- 4r into a GTO and and other related threads...


https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=607637

https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...d.php?t=448849




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[AG]

Talk to this place: http://automatedtransmission.com/
Steve is the owner and a Pontiac racer, he is in Methuen, mA.

[AG]

Talk to this place: http://automatedtransmission.com/
Steve is the owner and a Pontiac racer, he is in Methuen, mA.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by nh68gto

Good info guys and appreciate it. I’ve tried to learn it’s just not a comfort zone. Want a kitchen or bath remodeled, I got you. Lol.

Anyway. Th400 in the car now is slipping bad. I’ve call local shops and the online guys everything is $1800+ , no one does a rebuild for $800 anymore. So figured gain the OD if spending the money. But then it’s a shifter, converter, cables, adds up fast.

I’m not sure I wanna gamble with a used unit.
I’ll keep looking around and look at the options given.

T400s are easy to rebuild yourself.
You are just changing seals, inspecting-replacing clutches-steels and checking clearances. And used clutches and steels are perfectly fine to reuse if they check out.
Not bad at all.

[nh68gto]

So friend of friend has Gearstar converter he isn’t using and I can get for short money. Are they a worthy unit. 12” 1600-2400 stall lockup.