[chief455]

So I had my stock body 65 goat street friendly turn 12.86 at 106 on street radials. I sold the car to my best friend and he stopped using it on the street.
So he put on 9.5"x28" slicks, a small front sway bar, opened the hood scoop, and we opened the headers and jetted the carb up and it went faster every move we made.
It's best is 12.17 at 115 now.
Combo:
455 + .030 TRW flat tops
Stock rods/crank - balanced
2 bolt block smoothed
Ultradyne 231/239@.050 .485/.505 with 1.5 on 110lca
96 D-ports, mildly ported well by unknown
1.65 H/S roller rockers
RPM intake
2" spacer
950 HP Holley
#8x front/#92 rear jets, PV plugged
TH400 unknown stall - but works well - not too loose
3.70 9" rear
28" tires

The car runs awesome and crosses at 5800 rpm
had an 800DP then put on the 950 and it ran better all around
As we opened the scoop - up on jets, added the spacer - up on jets
It seems like too much carb - but driving and et says it is better!

Now - to get into 11's without body mods -
I was thinking this may want a Torker II and a 2" spacer
Or will I be out of operating rpm range?

next step is freshen the heads and a little bigger cam like:
242/250@.050, .565/.575 with 1.65 and keep the 110lca

we moved the battery to the trunk and removed the inner front fenders to transfer weight. 60' is high 1.6x's 1.7
I'm also thinking he needs a glass hood to go taller on the intake and still have an air cleaner - THAT WOULD BE THE MOST BODY ALTERATION CONSIDRED.

chime in with what your next move would be!
goal is no gear swap, stay under 6200 rpm for the stock rods and same long block

[scott70]

If you can do 115 in the 1/4,youve already got enough motor to run 11's.Actually if you have a 1.6x 60 ft. with a 115 mph,that should be an 11 sec. run unless it falling off mid track for some reason.With my 70 gto street car at 3950lbs,i ran 1.66 60 ft.,7.42 1/8th,11.71 at 115 1/4 mile using the exact cam your using now.

[SCREAMIN400]

I would toss the spacer and see what that does.

[455firebird1969]

With the right converter, 11's will be easy...

I ran a TCI that flashesd to 3400 in a similar combo...

[Ron H]

have you upgraded the fuel system at all? Porting the heads will net definate gains.
Instead of the hyd why not try a solid?

[chief455]

will need to get his timeslips - to confirm the numbers....guess we're very close then..

[chief455]

Originally Posted by SCREAMIN400

I would toss the spacer and see what that does.

adding it and jetting up to run good dropped a little over a tenth and picked up 2 mph

[chief455]

Originally Posted by Ron H

have you upgraded the fuel system at all? Porting the heads will net definate gains.
Instead of the hyd why not try a solid?

fuel system is holley blue, 1/2" line to regulator set at 7 psi
heads are ported - just have no info on them
by the numbers and crisp it runs they were done well - not race tho
I'm toying with the solid cam idea - but so many 11 sec hyd cam cars out there..no valve lash to adjust...

[chief455]

Originally Posted by 455firebird1969

With the right converter, 11's will be easy...

I ran a TCI that flashesd to 3400 in a similar combo...

hmmm - thought about this too
he won't mind going looer with the convertor, but it's gotta lock up to pull..
it flashes to about 2800 now then smacks the tires...

[screamingchief]

With the right converter, 11's will be easy...

Porting the heads will net definate gains.

Yeah,what these two guys said,though Ron's comment should read "further porting of the heads will net definite gains" .

The convertor may not need to be a bunch "looser" per se,just more efficient and effective.

Try the torker II,but dont be suprised if it does'nt offer much with that UD hydraulic cam.

What do you guys have for an exhaust system on this thing???

[chief455]

Originally Posted by screamingchief

Yeah,what these two guys said,though Ron's comment should read "further porting of the heads will net definite gains" .

The convertor may not need to be a bunch "looser" per se,just more efficient and effective.

Try the torker II,but dont be suprised if it does'nt offer much with that UD hydraulic cam.

What do you guys have for an exhaust system on this thing???

I wouln't be suprised by anything anymore!
I'm a lttle afraid to touch the convertor because so much to lose if we go the wrong way.
I'd love to hit the tires harder by getting it to peak tq at launch - but then I give up some pulling rpm range between gears...
We ran a full length Hooker Super Comp into 2.5" with an x-pipe, full mufflers and tail pipes. Un corking it gained 1-2 mph and dropped et.
He just removed the system for weight and we plan to put about 24" of 3" collector, paint it and cut off at the burnt area after a run
your thoughts?
What about the 950 with over 90 jets? could this actually want a 1050 on a single plane? just to track pass - not the street..

[screamingchief]

The thing to remember about torque convertors is their name is a bit of a misnomer.

They're really torque multipliers,that is,until a convertor reaches it's coupled state (this is the speed where the internal elements are essentially moving at the same speeds) they are also multiplying the torque being transfered from the engine to the trans.

The trans in turn does the same thing mechnically with regards to the gear ratios they use in the lower ranges.

So while a car is "on the convertor" the convertor is actually transfering more torque to the transmissions input shaft than the engine is actually making at the flexplate.

This is why in strictly race situations you'll see some pretty high stall convertors,especially on high winding combos that need to move thru the lower RPM ranges very quickly to get to the "sweet spot" power-wise.

And do understand that convertors dont "slip-thru" the lower RPM ranges (at least not good convertors,,,but that's another post entirely) they actually "power-thru" the lower RPM ranges.

This is why when they are "flashed" hard the car launches much harder as a general rule.

The slippage factor has to do with the choice of elements that make up a given convertor,high stall/tight units work well in street/strip combos as they are very efficient and well coupled,so they can be driven casually without feeling "mushy" down low,but put a bunch of torque to them and watch the tires get "smacked" hard.

Convertors are definitely a balancing act,but you should'nt fear them so much,they're your friend when you need them to do a tough job.

It's not uncommon to see folks pick up anywhere from a couple of tenths to a half a second with a swap to a primo convertor.

Those that have BTDT will tell you,they were worth every penny,and often it was the best change they made in the combo!

[Goathead]

Originally Posted by Ron H

have you upgraded the fuel system at all? Porting the heads will net definate gains.
Instead of the hyd why not try a solid?

I, too, am with Ron on this one. If you are going to "freshen the heads", freshen some more flow into them and the job is done...

[chief455]

Originally Posted by Goathead

I, too, am with Ron on this one. If you are going to "freshen the heads", freshen some more flow into them and the job is done...

hmm...had not even considered that.
I'd have to get them flowed first for a baseline and determine if budget will allow a GOOD porteor to touch them.
I made 600hp/600tq with 9.5:1 D-ports that "only" flowed 250@.600
It was the .200 and .400 lift numbers that made that motor run. Early Butler heads.
I'm guessing these 96 heads are similar by the way they run with this combo.
Must be a nice low lift curve in the heads.
Won't hurt to flow and see tho.....
As for the convertor - I've swapped no less than 4 stalls into my LS1 Firebird because they don't always do what is claimed or expected.
The high STR tire slammers cn be way too lose around low rpm, and the low STR 1.6-1.9 jobs can not "flash" enough to lower the 60'
Pontiac's are a tough nut for convertor builders I've been finding - and they aren't cheap.
I'd probably use the one in the car and have it restalled to specs we have and new goals.
Good stuff guys - nice thoughts and real ideas....
Still - nobody is touching my carb cfm question! Is this motor a freak?
Anyone else ever have a tame cam want to much fuel/air?

[Ron H]

I tend to think a 1050 and Victor would help but you need a cam swap to match and converter too.
I bet with a continental 3200-3500 stall you'd be in the 11's from where you are.I swapped from a TCI with about 2800 flash to a continental with 3300 flash and it picked me up .15 in the 60' and .23 in ET alone. They are tight on the street and really work well under load. 115 mph should have you in the 11.80's.

[chief455]

Originally Posted by Ron H

I tend to think a 1050 and Victor would help but you need a cam swap to match and converter too.
I bet with a continental 3200-3500 stall you'd be in the 11's from where you are.I swapped from a TCI with about 2800 flash to a continental with 3300 flash and it picked me up .15 in the 60' and .23 in ET alone. They are tight on the street and really work well under load. 115 mph should have you in the 11.80's.

Encouraging. We were hoping to stay with bolt on's - had the convertor swap in mind, then a cam. And just new springs and a single plane to match components - all bolt on's.

[n2ogpsj462]

bolt ons will yield minimal gains. your combo seems to work well. larger gains are aquired by getting your power to the tires ie. a matching converter, gears etc.

[ponjohn]

That is nearly the identical combo I have and very similair times. My best is 11.98 @ 109 @ 3680. Engine dyno;d at 443 hp and 532 tque. I would hope to see an increase of at least 30-40 hp with increased flow.

I plan to take my 96 d-ports ( 220cfm) off over the winter and send them to SD for a full on CNC 250cfm port. Prefer al. heads but cost is prohibitive for me now. This will be a true back to back comparison. I am not changing anything else. Same cam, rockers etc etc.

BTW- Dave will have the 96 d-port program done in a few weeks. It is different from 6x, 4x etc etc.

John

[chief455]

ok - a few corrections
the car ran a best of 112 mph at 12.2
then he jetted up to 92 and it went 12.17 at 110
and it ran sluggish ie response
also - it has a 1" spacer - tall as will fit with an air cleaner. Open filter top Edelbrock deal because the car did gain mph when he opened the scoop and raised 2 jet sizes.


best mph and et were with open headers - but he has 3" header mufflers on it with the full exhaust removed (weight) and he put the jets back to 88 rear - no passes yet


so I guess the carb is maxed out and once we get the exhaust tune in the motor will be running about all it can

I'm leaning toward saving for the convertor and trying to lose some weight from the car
If we could drop the 60' from 1.7 to a 1.5 we'd be there...gear? crossing at 5800 with that cam and cast rods is probably good.

[Ron H]

A 1.5 60' is running 10's.
I ran 12.11 @ 112 last season with 1.74 60's.
I found a 1/2" divided spacer cut in the middle as Jim Hand tested worked well for me. Open spacer on an RPM I lost 60' and et over the 1/2" cut divided.
Sounds like, more porting on the heads and a cam swap with a 3500 stall converter is the route.
The fiberglass hood would help with the weight drop.
ASre you sure it is trapping at 5800? I was trapping at 5200 with 3.89 gears and a 30" tire.
Check what the trap RPM's are and shift at or below there and see if that doesn't net a bit as well. Though the car feels like it pulls to 5800, it is usually faster shifting lower.