[red1975pacer]

But Boss, its safe to say that they defiantly follow a pattern. correct? Do you feel that the 77-79 may have already "peaked"?

[The Boss]

Absolutely, but don't expect that the car that you have today will fund your retirement. It will peak at some point but will not continue to rise indefinitely.

Just as an example - 68ragtop could probably sell one of his TA's today and buy a 69 RA IV/4spd GTO (non Judge) without any additional money - there a couple available! That concept in and of itself would have been unheard of even last year! But the late TA's are rising quickly and the non Judges are dropping. That being said, this late 70's rise in my opinion cannot sustain this kind of growth for long. Much higher production numbers and the pool of buyers who can spend $50k+ on a collector car shrinks quickly.

You mentioned the 80's Mustang & Grand Nationals - the Camaro & Firebirds are jumping too. In just the last year some of them have doubled! Low mile nice condition cars are being picked off e-bay left & right for crazy money already (some without regard to drive line). As with all, the production numbers, higher horsepower, more desirable options will prevail.

Buy the third gens now while you can still find a decent car for $5k or less. There are some seriously crazy low mile, rare cars out there for stupid cheap prices! I bought 4 of them just this month!

[red1975pacer]

Know somebody selling a low mileage 82? Recaro. guy wants like 15k for it Black car IRC. Some of these 80's Trans Ams have already started the upward curve.Girlfreind had a 86 base motor TA back in the day. Kinda cool, but not like a T Top, good color one would have been. Seems like 82 -83 ones are the rarest of the breed, at least from a 'trim' respective.

[77 Canamman]

Since I was actively shopping for Y81/Y82 4 speeds the past few months, I was amazed and disgusted at the same time the asking prices on them. Pure freaking insanity are the words that came to mind. I passed on a '77 Y82 that had a lot of poor bodywork, NOM and transmission for $50k! There were several with $80k pricetags! While I love the cars, there is no way a 1977 anything should be fetching that kind of coin, especially considering the bone stock level of "performance".

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by The Boss

Buy the third gens now while you can still find a decent car for $5k or less. There are some seriously crazy low mile, rare cars out there for stupid cheap prices! I bought 4 of them just this month!

Shhhhhh, While I only have my Iroc & GTA, I completely agree. But, there sure seems to but way more low mileage original 3rd gens around than 2nd's without question. They also held up better from a rust perspective IMO. Not sure how that will impact things in upcoming years?
What cars did you buy?

[dreamn69]

Originally Posted by red1975pacer

68ragtop, it looks like your collection of cars is right in the "sweetspot 'of this story. I figure we are just entering the peak years, and there may still be 5 years or so of growth. after that its anybodys guess. By the way , there already saying that the 80-93 Mustang Gt's, along with the Grand Nationals are the "future'. BTW, the 16k that "project" is up to is either "smart' or "crazy". Cant tell yet until the "smoke" clears, but Im guessing "crazy".

I am guessing crazy too. I just sold this resto candidate that was a complete running matching car. Twice as nice with the same options for less money:

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by 68ragtop

Shhhhhh, While I only have my Iroc & GTA, I completely agree. But, there sure seems to but way more low mileage original 3rd gens around than 2nd's without question. They also held up better from a rust perspective IMO. Not sure how that will impact things in upcoming years?
What cars did you buy?

I'll tell you in another hour or two once the 2nd 1LE gets loaded on the transport.

I agree, they hold up very well, give an equal or better ride to the later 2nd gens, are still mechanical and easy to work on with only minor computer interference, are easy to find AND CHEAP TO BUY!!!

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by The Boss

I'll tell you in another hour or two once the 2nd 1LE gets loaded on the transport.

I agree, they hold up very well, give an equal or better ride to the later 2nd gens, are still mechanical and easy to work on with only minor computer interference, are easy to find AND CHEAP TO BUY!!!

Your gonna have to start buying 4 post lifts, or build "another" new storage garage soon.

[red1975pacer]

Anybody have the sales data from Mechum Indy concerning Trans Ams?

[77 Canamman]

W21 1981 Pontiac Trans Am Unrestored, Build Sheet Indianapolis, IN $12,000
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...tiac-Trans-Am/

T93 1979 Pontiac Trans Am 10th Anniversary 6.6/220 HP, Automatic Indianapolis, IN $30,000
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...-Am/Automatic/

F43 1981 Pontiac Trans Am Pace Car Edition Automatic, 13,652 Miles Indianapolis, IN $33,500
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...ion/Automatic/

T79 1979 Pontiac Trans Am SE 400 CI, 4-Speed, T-Tops Indianapolis, IN $42,000
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...Am-SE/4-Speed/

F238 1976 Pontiac Trans Am SE One of 319 Produced, Well Documented Indianapolis, IN $59,000
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...Am-SE/4-Speed/

G55.1 1976 Pontiac Trans Am 6.6L, Automatic Indianapolis, IN $17,500
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...-Am/Automatic/

W129.1 1978 Pontiac Trans Am 400/350 HP, Automatic Indianapolis, IN $13,000
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...-Am/Automatic/

T112 1978 Pontiac Trans Am 400/210 HP, Automatic Indianapolis, IN $27,000
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...-Am/Automatic/

W99 1980 Pontiac Trans Am 301 CI, Automatic Indianapolis, IN $10,500
https://www.mecum.com/lot-detail/SC0...-Am/Automatic/

[Aus78Formula]

I'd expect the details for the 2nd TATA to be incorrect, 6.6L with Auto would be the 403, the 400 should only have been available in manual. Of course, no pics or details.

[bs78ta]

And a 403 sure as hell is not 220 HP, more like 170. maybe!

[77 Canamman]

They were rated at 185 HP, but some tools on this board would have you believe they were faster than a W72.

Not in my experience!

[red1975pacer]

Iregardless of power input, it seems like the auction was kind of a dud price wise. On the AMC Forum, the prognosis is about the same.

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

They were rated at 185 HP, but some tools on this board would have you believe they were faster than a W72.

Not in my experience!

My T/A had the 180 HP low/no compression 400. During first year or so, there was a dweeb going to the Jr. College I was attending...he had a 403 in his TA. He kept mouth'n off to me about how superior his Olds engine was to my Ponti-crack.
I kept my car in a pristine state of tune at all times. I took him for a ride in my car...that shut his tapper up...

[68ragtop]

Originally Posted by Aus78Formula

I'd expect the details for the 2nd TATA to be incorrect, 6.6L with Auto would be the 403, the 400 should only have been available in manual. Of course, no pics or details.

I've never seen rustproofing sprayed up the backside of a door like that.
I would imagine the underside is just hammered full seeing the doors & the rocker plugs. I know it was all for good intention back in the day, but I just hate seeing it on cars that were hardly ever driven & didn't end up needing it whatsoever. Dealers pushing it at the closing of the sale happened a lot.

[gtohurstjudge]

Originally Posted by 77 Canamman

They were rated at 185 HP, but some tools on this board would have you believe they were faster than a W72.

Not in my experience!

I said that in my experience the Olds is faster and I am not a tool, I've been in the car repair business for forty years. I owned a 5,000 mile untouched 400 4 speed 79T/A timed
to specs, no mods....it ran 15.7 in the quarter. My Olds 403 79 T/A timed to specs also very low mile and never molested under the hood runs 15.4 in the quarter. The Olds is not a slug
no matter how hard you guys try to make it out to be. That being said, my 2013 V-6 Mustang
would blow the doors off of either one of them, so all things are relative!

[77 Canamman]

What times does your V6 run?

[rexs73gto]

The olds engine was & is a slug, It weighs about 100 lbs more & you can definitely feel it when you throw it into a corner. The olds has a wee bit more TQ but it goes all away at the top end. Now if you do other then the factory setting on the timing the Pontiac engine comes alive & will leave the olds powered car in the dust. The only reason the olds engine was used was for the fact of emission testing. It was going to take another 3 months to get the Pontiac passed so they threw the olds engine in the car because it was already a passed engine & Pontiac was not going to make the 400 Pontiac engine any more so they didn't spend the time to get it passed. Plus the CA. cars already had the olds slug in it with all the testing in & with an auto so it was for Pontiac a cost thing & that was it. But the olds engine has been tested over & over again & there was only a few instances where the Pontiac engine was bested. Also I don't think your a tool , I just think you don't know what your talking about in this case.

[Grand73Am]

Originally Posted by rexs73gto

The olds engine was & is a slug, It weighs about 100 lbs more

Don't know where you got that....The Olds 403 is actually 100 lbs lighter than a Pontiac 400. The 403 is even as light or lighter than a Chevy 350.

And I don't think it's a slug either. It made the same power as an L78 Pontiac 400, so I guess the L78 must be a slug too.

I think the reason they got a bad rap is because they were in automatics, mostly with 2.41 rear gears, whereas the Pontiac equipped cars got better gear ratios, and could have a 4 speed. Most people apparently don't take that into consideration. Give it the same gearing and it'll run faster too. Give it higher compression and better cam, like a W72 got, and it would keep up with it.

So, I think it's a good running and dependable street engine. And it doesn't take much to improve the power....just like it wouldn't take much to improve an L78.

It's not the perfect choice for a race engine, but not talking about race engines here. Even though, they can be built to make a lot of power. Like everything, it just takes money.