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gr8scott · 08-02-2002, 09:24 PM

Hello all. I'm new to this forum and I recently found a 1969 Judge in a friends garage. It has been parked for about 20 years. The original motor had 2 rods thrown through the block so my friend put a Chev 283 engine from a Corvette in the Judge.(Stupid I know) My friend wants $5,000.00 Canadian for the car and all the old parts. I posted a few pictures at the following link: http://www.dabuilding.com/judge_pics.htm If any of you fine folks could check out the pictures and let me know if you think the car is worth restoring I would be very greatful. I had a friend look at the numbers on the tag pictured and said the car is in fact a real Carousel Red Judge. I have never completely restored a car before, but I think it would be a lot of fun for me and my two sons. I figured you guys would be the right guys to ask. Thanks in advance for the wisdom. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Scott

gr8scott · 08-02-2002, 09:24 PM

Hello all. I'm new to this forum and I recently found a 1969 Judge in a friends garage. It has been parked for about 20 years. The original motor had 2 rods thrown through the block so my friend put a Chev 283 engine from a Corvette in the Judge.(Stupid I know) My friend wants $5,000.00 Canadian for the car and all the old parts. I posted a few pictures at the following link: http://www.dabuilding.com/judge_pics.htm If any of you fine folks could check out the pictures and let me know if you think the car is worth restoring I would be very greatful. I had a friend look at the numbers on the tag pictured and said the car is in fact a real Carousel Red Judge. I have never completely restored a car before, but I think it would be a lot of fun for me and my two sons. I figured you guys would be the right guys to ask. Thanks in advance for the wisdom. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Scott

darren · 08-02-2002, 09:53 PM

Scott buy it 5000 is fair as for engine I may be able to help but there is no shortage of pontiac parts in Alberta just be forwarned that it will be a long road and somewhat pricey but when done it should bring 15 to 20 grand U.S. depending on restoration hope you buy it my father and I have restored 3 GTO's and are now on our 4th its time well spent

A1Judge · 08-02-2002, 09:55 PM

Well, it looks like a JUDGE, but to be sure, have the VIN run through Pontiac Historical Services..

If it is a Judge, restoring it is another question. Without the original motor, the value is decreased, and if you plan on a frame off like I did, get your check book out... I have invested $20,000+ U.S. in my restoration of a 70 Judge.

Is it worth it? That depends. to me it was, and is.. Just make sure it is real before you invest.

DC

gr8scott · 08-02-2002, 10:00 PM

Darren, Thanks for the reply. After looking at the photos, is there a positive way to determine if the car is a real Judge or a fake? I trust it is in fact real, but you never know. I guess I could pay the $45.00 USD I seen some site on the net is charging. They say the will send you the build sheet if you send them the VIN number. Do you think that is the only way to know for sure?

Scott

gr8scott · 08-02-2002, 10:04 PM

Thanks DC. Your car is beautiful. I would agree that your project was well worth the money. I would plan on about a 2 year project on the 69.

Scott

darren · 08-02-2002, 10:52 PM

Scott just phone GM of Canada at 888 467 6853 if the car was sold new in Canada they will have all info for $ 45.00 Canadian as for being if the truck lid stays open $5000 says its real if you are in a hurry for documentation GM of Canada will allso rush a fax of the info to you fot a little more money
Good luck Darren

WDCreech · 08-02-2002, 11:18 PM

gr8scott, Restoring that car will take a lot of work (time), and probably be very expensive. But doing it with your sons is "priceless". Something that you, and they, will never forget! You will tell your grand kids about it and your sons will tell their grand kids about it. You will realize what I'm saying when you first take it for a drive. When you do, take both of your sons. They will never forget.

gr8scott · 08-02-2002, 11:35 PM

Thanks so much guys. You guys are all awesome. I will likely be on this forum a lot in the future asking you guys more questions. I really appreciate it.

Scott

darren · 08-03-2002, 12:10 AM

sorry about the typing what I ment to say is if the trunk lid stays open then I would bet it is real if your freind has had the car 20 years then the chances of it being a code 72 car and being cloned are slim in canada the muscle car craze really did'nt hit untill 1984 or so my favorite car that dad and I have restored is a 1969 Judge carousel red 4 speed parchment interior hood tach no council drum brakes plain jain Judge it was finished in 1989 and turns heads were ever I take it we have allso restored a 1969 GTO Royal Bobcat clone and a 1970 GTO Judge convert and are presently working on a 1970 Judge hard top so if you are looking for help in Canada give me a shout I live and breathe pontiac GTO's

gr8scott · 08-03-2002, 01:17 AM

Darren, I don't understand why if the trunk lid stays open, it has a better chance of being legit. I did pop the trunk in order to check for rust and the lid did stay open. I had to use a screw driver as the lock assembly is missing. There was also no visible rust. It sounds like you and your dad have quite a collection. I would love to see some pictures. I am sure I may have more questions for you. I appreciate advice from guys like yourself who have done this before. Swift Current is pretty close to Lethbridge which is where I live. Cheers, Scott

Bud Lyons · 08-03-2002, 04:41 AM

If someone just bolted a wing onto a Lemans the trunk would not stay open. They used stiffer trunk supports on the Judges. Sounds like you found a good one.

R 70 Judge · 08-03-2002, 08:59 AM

I say definitely buy it

From the pictures it looks to be very strait and rust free. It shows all the signs of being an authentic Judge - 72/72 paint,spoiler,ram air cable,ram air hood,etc.... Does it have a "THE JUDGE" emblem on the glove box door? Open the door and look for old pieces of the stripe on the inner part of the fenders.

I purchased my car without knowing if it was "a real Judge". It, like the one you are looking at had all of the signs of being the real deal so I bought it anyway.

Your post says "and all the old parts" does that include the original engine and rally wheels? Even if the block is trashed you can still use all of the other original parts.

Even if it turns out to be just a ram air GTO it is still worth the money.

Who knows, it may be a ram air IV Judge

[ August 03, 2002, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: R 70 Judge ]

70ramair455 · 08-03-2002, 09:45 AM

It's a FAKE ... A HOAX ... Don't buy it!! Now what did you say the seller's phone number was?

gr8scott · 08-03-2002, 11:44 AM

There is no Judge emblem on the glove box. I will check the door jambs for stripes etc. My friend has the Original bell housing and parts from the engine but does not have the broken block nor does he have the rally wheels. How can you tell if the car is a Ram Air IV Judge? On Tuesday I will have the VIN run through Pontiac Historical Services and I will know for sure. [img]smile.gif[/img]

mike nixon · 08-03-2002, 11:59 AM

buy it, that car's alot better than the one [68 gto] i'm starting with, and for the shape it's in it looks like a deal.

the time spent with you kids will make it all worth the effort and will build knowlege and memories for them. mike

Glenn · 08-03-2002, 02:37 PM

Be careful. Ram-Air could be ordered in a non-Judge. The reason Darren asked about the trunk lid being able to stay open, if someone had just added the rear spoiler, the extra weight wouldn't allow the lid to stay open without be held. The diameter of the deck-lid torsion bars had to be increased to support the additional weight. I know for sure that in 1970 a rear spoiler could be ordered on a regular GTO, but not sure if it was available in 1969.

Early Judges didn't have the Judge emblem on the glove-box door.

The grille is blacked out, but I've seen regular '69 GTO's with Ram-Air motors with blacked out front grilles. Example, see pg.56 "Original Pontiac GTO" by Tom DeMauro.

darren · 08-03-2002, 03:08 PM

Your car apears to have been built the 1st week of march my 69 Judge was also built 1st week of march in Bal and it was built without the Judge emblem on glove box door the first 2000 or so were built that way due to a suppy problem I would be interestsd in knowing where it was sold new after you get your info back mine was sold in Gull Lake Sask

gr8scott · 08-03-2002, 04:31 PM

Glen, Thanks for that info. Could a regular GTO be ordered with the rear spoiler and hood tach as well?
Darren, As soon as I get the info back from PHS, I will post. Thanks, Scott

darren · 08-03-2002, 05:10 PM

Yes a regular GTO could be ordered with a hood tach and the rear spoiler would be dealer installed but the color was to be a Judge only color and would have to be a special order on a non Judge GTO also the dealer installed spoiler would not likly come with the heavier torq rods to hold the trunk open

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