[PONTIAC DUDE]

I know about the CV1's. Now see posts about a CV2, But haven't seen any established info on this NEW prototype? I keep seeing CV2 mentioned on PY.

Someone mentioned Billet? Is it the same valve configuration? Ports? Bench work? Testing?
New design or modded old design? Applications? Etc.

Inquiring minds want to know.

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

I know about the CV1's. Now see posts about a CV2, But haven't seen any established info on this NEW prototype? I keep seeing CV2 mentioned on PY.

Someone mentioned Billet? Is it the same valve configuration? Ports? Bench work? Testing?
New design or modded old design? Applications? Etc.

Inquiring minds want to know.

Just curious, with all of the bashing you have done, why do you care?

[PONTIAC DUDE]

Originally Posted by jdw_poncho

Just curious, with all of the bashing you have done, why do you care?

I never bashed, called people names or spread rumors. I have always stated FACTS with anything I do my entire life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does this comment have to do with my curiously to keep up on ACTUAL facts?
Why the hate dude?

[BruceWilkie]

Ken, thank you for opening some dialog on these and hopefully this can stay informative and not end up a pee'n match.

Guess I'll start the infomercial... Gang I'm an unofficial, non paid, Pontiac enthusiast who has simply taken the time to find as much 1st hand info as I can.
I havent been asked to do this. I have been thanked, so maybe I'm semi official. Any so called "claims" that I may have ever made or implied are MY OPINION of the potential I see or MY opinion of potential not gone after by the owners of existing builds.

The CV2 was actually on Jims drawing board first... was going to be a casting. I knew about it when you and I were talking cam stuff so its not totally new in that sense. It went to CV1 configuration...siamese center exhaust ports, traditonal droop snoots, with accomodation to readily remove them to accomodate those who would like to take advantage of a raised exhaust port.

The cv1 configuration decision was largely to accomodate ease of changeover especially if already a RA4 style head was being used. In other words reach a broader market.
Another reason was Jim didnt want to interfere with McCartys 5 head that was about to come out about the same time. Knowing Lynn had so much of his own $$$$$$ tied into it as Jim was about to make a similar personal investment, he held back.

It was a couple or more years back when it was decided if the CV2 was done it would be a race only billet with raised exhaust port only. At least until it was succesful enough to generate sufficient demand for a similar product in cast form. IMO the Charlie Sikes screwin inspired the change of direction.

Pontiacs traditional exhaust configuration has been one of the things that have held us back. Siamesd AND droop snoot cleary worse than just siamesed when pushing things. Even SBC's hit limits from Siamese center exhaust.
At least if siamesed ctr ex port is above the head bolts(SBC or "convertible" CV1) the lower deck bolts in that area get less heat to them.
The other advantage to a raised exhaust port is power. At the velocity and pressure seen when the exhaust valve opens, the last thing the exhaust gasses "want" to do is make an immediate turn. Making the exhaust ports non siamese more evenly balances heat loads on the head bolts. (Head Gaskets less prone to fail)

OK, all that said... And IMO important... Most Pontiac applications simply can get by with just improved head cooling in the center bolt area.(Which Jim paid close attention to inside the CV1 casting) Not everyone would gain much of anything simply switching to a non siamesed exhaust configuration.

Some CV2 head info... Intake Port entry location is same as CV1. CV1 intake will bolt up...somewhat moot on a billet as it would more likely be used with a sheet metal intake. But if casting ever emerged existing and upcoming cv1 intakes will work. With the center cylinders ex ports segregated it changes the center intake port runner positioning beyond the entrance.

Capabilities... well with a billet... much more than the cv1 or CV1 "re-tool". More like "what do you need?". Bill(mostly) and Calvin have a buch of refined port sizes to baseline from if building a small ci motor.

Jim posted this info back in June
POST 45 http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...=730195&page=3. Yep this port is real its excellent on the bench(SF1020 properly calibrated) and it needs in car testing. That is not the ports limit, thats its starting point. (over the max ported casting which is pretty much at its limit by then)
That port is very efficient by all standards... There is room for a bigger valve than was used for for the above results AND still work within our bore space limitations.

There IS more to be known about this head but hopefully I've presented enough info to raise USEFUL questions.

PLEASE ALL OF US... Lets keep this technical and informative not romper room nonsense.

[goatracer]

Bruce, has a completed pair of these heads been produced yet or is it still a cad file?

Bryan

[jdw_poncho]

Originally Posted by PONTIAC DUDE

I never bashed, called people names or spread rumors. I have always stated FACTS with anything I do my entire life !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What does this comment have to do with my curiously to keep up on ACTUAL facts?
Why the hate dude?

No hate on my part? I said just curious, what's the concern?

It's no secrete you don't have much good to say, I was just curious why you asked? I would have asked Liljack and kinser the same thing. Just seemed out of place.

So????


Edit: btw I never said anything about calling names, where did that come from?

[johnta1]

What does this comment have to do with my curiously to keep up on ACTUAL facts?

I would think the best source of info is from the manufacturer?

Not the rumor mill here?

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by goatracer

Bruce, has a completed pair of these heads been produced yet or is it still a cad file?

Bryan

Bill made a workpiece from cv1 work pieces last winter... not pretty but cost effective model... (hand carvin an expensive solid billet isnt very cost or time effective) It was then digitized . Jim and Bill verified locating points, got rid of ugly cosmetics etc., to insure it needs only routine work once cut on the cnc. They do have water provisions worked out for the billet if desired. I've seen the ports on the flowbench... I'll just verify that Jims posted numbers arent inflated. Bill is fanatic about verifying his bench accuracy when he sees an improvement.


Jim has the ability to create a fully water jacketed cast version... (I'd like to own that but demand and deposits would have to happen first). IMO doing so would limit it from the potential the billet could have.

[BruceWilkie]

I come in Peace brothers... I think Ken has as well. Please respect that. Please try to keep it so neither side gets defensive.

I'll add a thought... Marcella is not going to run a Pontiac motor... that should set off alarm bells!!!

...thats not good for any of us... If we dont keep development movin because we are too busy beating ourselves up, we are not just going to lose racers and races to the competition, we will lose developers and suppliers to them as well.

Yes criticism can be constructive... it can also be a detriment.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

I come in Peace brothers... I think Ken has as well. Please respect that. Please try to keep it so neither side gets defensive.

I'll add a thought... Marcella is not going to run a Pontiac motor... that should set off alarm bells!!!

...thats not good for any of us... If we dont keep development movin because we are too busy beating ourselves up, we are not just going to lose racers and races to the competition, we will lose developers and suppliers to them as well.

Yes criticism can be constructive... it can also be a detriment.

Take that bell and shove it up Marcelle's arse!

Pontiac development is going to jump leaps and bounds this year!

[john marcella]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Take that bell and shove it up Marcelle's arse!

Pontiac development is going to jump leaps and bounds this year!

LOL, Thanks Jack.

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by john marcella

LOL, Thanks Jack.

ECM loves u John!





It was just a joke

[cgeise]

Well that was rather abrupt --

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Take that bell and shove it up Marcelle's arse!

Pontiac development is going to jump leaps and bounds this year!

Its on all our shoulders Jack not just yours. You have taken a big leap... I think most on BOTH sides appreciate that. Dont disappoint. We want you to be able to back up what you hope for. We need all our tomahawks for the competition, not be wastin them on each other.

Im tryn t get something together...wont be a top dog but it will be one more Pontiac representing. Enough Pontiacs representin maybe we get more favorable rules?

[mike leech]

A-W-K-W-A-R-D!

[BruceWilkie]

Originally Posted by mike leech

A-W-K-W-A-R-D!

Y-E-S

[LiL Jack]

I didn't want John to get his feelings hurt.


Are they going to try and put water in the cv2s also?


Thanks Bruce anything to move the Pontiac community forward!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by LiL Jack

Take that bell and shove it up Marcelle's arse!

Pontiac development is going to jump leaps and bounds this year!

Yes, you figured out how to bolt a (BBC) Chevy head to a Pontiac block.

Stan

[LiL Jack]

Don't hate, appreciate

[goatracer]

Originally Posted by BruceWilkie

Bill made a workpiece from cv1 work pieces last winter... not pretty but cost effective model... (hand carvin an expensive solid billet isnt very cost or time effective) It was then digitized . Jim and Bill verified locating points, got rid of ugly cosmetics etc., to insure it needs only routine work once cut on the cnc. They do have water provisions worked out for the billet if desired. I've seen the ports on the flowbench... I'll just verify that Jims posted numbers arent inflated. Bill is fanatic about verifying his bench accuracy when he sees an improvement.


Jim has the ability to create a fully water jacketed cast version... (I'd like to own that but demand and deposits would have to happen first). IMO doing so would limit it from the potential the billet could have.

So the initial ground work has been layed, Jim is just waiting for a customer to put down a deposit before he produces the first set?

Bryan