[tom s]

The std H&S usually need to have the ones by the bolt holes ground for clearance,NBD,I think they have a new set that are more tapered on the pushrod ends and dont need to be ground.Its only 2 on each bank.I always run the Butler 5/16 gaskets and never have a problem with 400 lobe lift and 1.65 rockers.Tom

[KEN CROCIE]

Rather than grinding the underside of the rocker for retainer clearance , I sometimes use a lash cap to lift the rocker away from the retainer.

[Scott Stoneburg]

My Crane Gold 1.5 rockers came already clearanced in that area., so are my 1.65 Scorpions.

[NeighborsComplaint]

Longer pushrods.

[64speed]

Actually if you look at the Butler website there apparently is a condition where a BBC style rocker is required. They have a set of roller rockers that are only for Edelbrock heads that have an offset built into them for when heads are slotted for 1.65 rockers. They are 989 dollars though. I talked to my machinist because I was worried this was what he was talking about and I was gonna have to spend another grand but he said it was just the voodoo rockers.

[Skip Fix]

Wonder if they are just using the offset trunnions?
Here is a picture off Scorpions, Aluminum BBC Crower,HS,Norris, BBC Crower SS.
Next one stamped steel 1.5,stamped steel 1.65. HS 1.5, HS 1.65, Crower SS BBC .

You can see on all the BBC versions they are longer than the Pontiac rockers.

[64speed]

I’m gonna call Butler on Monday and get some clarification on all this cause now I am intrigued. Go to the butler website and go to the bottom of the rocker arms page and look. It says they are only for Edelbrock heads. God if I end up having to spend another thousand on my valvetrain I am gonna be pissed.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Skip Fix

Wonder if they are just using the offset trunnions?
Here is a picture off Scorpions, Aluminum BBC Crower,HS,Norris, BBC Crower SS.
Next one stamped steel 1.5,stamped steel 1.65. HS 1.5, HS 1.65, Crower SS BBC .

You can see on all the BBC versions they are longer than the Pontiac rockers.

Skip fix what rockers are you running and what heads? I am looking at the HS rockers or I may bite the bullet and buy the Crower. My machinist said the Voodoo looked to be a quality piece they just don’t fit, could be bad batch, misboxed, idk but I bought them from Butler when I bought the heads.

[STEELCITYFIREBIRD]

Did you try calling the Butler Boys with your problem?
Can't really tell where the roller tip is contacting the valve.
Longer pushrods may be in order here.

Clearancing rockers is not uncommon with aluminum rocker arms, usually a paper roll works nicely.

For as much as you plan to drive this.. and heavy spring rates, a set of good SS rockers would seem to be in order here.

[Richie Hoffman]

Use a Lash cap

[Skip Fix]

My pump gas E head motor has the Crower 1.8 ratio 0.090 offset trunnion , lash cap and a 8.950 pushrod on the intakes. Exhaust 1.65 HS no lashcap and 9.150 pushrod. We dynoed that motor starting with Crower SBF 1.33 break in roackers then HS 1.5s HS 1.65s then the Crower /HS combination.

Previous motor with E heads has the 1.5 HS and a solid roller 9.250 pushrods. Those heads are n the 500" and have the Crower rocker shaft. And I had to almost engineer from scratch the correct rocker offset for Crower as the kit was way off and these are not wideport needing an offset. First set I had they had the same listed for iron heads as well as E heads that have a different valve spacing, they swapped the stands out but the pushrod holes did not line up so I got several different offsets rockers to test fir-on my nickel but the refunded when I sent back the others and order a set of the correct offset.

One other note HS does have a "racing body" rocker for Pontiacs that seems to be bulkier but also slightly different length than the regular one.

[64speed]

My Machinist up using bbc rocker arms because even the 1.65” riockers we tried from three different brands ended up not being able to get a good contact pattern on the valve tips. I have no idea why but they bolted right on and work just fine

[Mike Davis]

I run the Crower Stainless on 2 different engines and have used 5 different sets and have never had a issue. I can't see how a BBC rocker will work. Sounds like the wrong length valves and pushrods. Were these heads out of the box?

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Mike Davis

I run the Crower Stainless on 2 different engines and have used 5 different sets and have never had a issue. I can't see how a BBC rocker will work. Sounds like the wrong length valves and pushrods. Were these heads out of the box?

These heads were prepped and ported by Butler. With the Pontiac 1.6 rockers we just could not get a good contact pattern with any of the 3 brands we tried. Bolted on Lunati BBC 1.7 rocker arms and geometry was perfect. Caster1 is using the same setup. Motor runs excellent if you saw the video in my build thread

[Skip Fix]

So found my sheet with measurements from center of trunnion to center of roller
SBC 1.420
BBC1.650
BBF 1.590
SBF Windsor 1.508
HS Pontiac 1.508
HS Race Body Pontiac 1.535

I sure thought I remembered the Crower SBF was shorter than the Pontiac I will have to dig out the 1.6 and the 1.33 break in rocker and measure again. But as you can see a BBC is 0.142 longer if you are not using the 0.090 offset trunnion. Does not make sense it could fit unless a really short pushrod. My 0.090 BBC take a 8.950 pushrod vs a 9.150 for the HS Pontiacs.

[64speed]

I can send pics if you’d like. The BBC rockers work perfectly. Longer pushrods on the pontiac rockers only made the situation worse

[HWYSTR455]

Hm. Something is askew here, I know I would like to see pics.

You say the 'geometry' is perfect with the BBC rockers? I know I would like to see a pic at mid lift. I'm guessing that the 'contact pattern' approach was used.

Also would be curious to know which lifters were used and the pushrod length. I'm betting there's a pretty short pushrod being used.

.

[242177P]

Originally Posted by 64speed

With the Pontiac 1.6 rockers we just could not get a good contact pattern with any of the 3 brands we tried.

Wasn't it just retainer interference earlier?

[Formulas]

When trial fitting or considering any brand X rocker there is more to pay attention to than just rocker fulcrum center to valve tip

In relation to center of rocker movement pushrod cup height and roller tip height changes as well.


This also changes in purposely built for Pontiac arms. There is a bit of interpretation or close enough going on in this world


Some comp roller rockers dont fit E'heads well but old school Harlan Sharp 1.65 fits E'heads

[HWYSTR455]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I can send pics if you’d like. The BBC rockers work perfectly. Longer pushrods on the pontiac rockers only made the situation worse

What about shorter pushrods? Were shorter ones tried?

Again, the mid-lift method is the best way to know what length pushrods to use.

.