[n2ogpsj462]

This thread reminds me why I saved my pennies for an extra couple weeks and bought crowers. Zero negative press, spot on out of the box and spot on after 10yrs of lots of nitrous and boost. (My entire rotating assembly is currently at my machine shop and everything but my bore passed) although back then these were like 7-750$ I think?

[Cliff R]

Good move IMHO, and if nothing else you will certainly sleep better at night!

I had Crower's in my last 455 and they certainly made the grade. I've got the ultra-light "I" beams I the current engine that PPR marketed for a while, zero issues with them as well.

I'd also mention here that we had the lifter bores cave in on one of our 455's a few years back. It was full race and had a brace in it. About the on thing that survived that ordeal were the Crower rods! It was an ugly mess to say the least, as it let go in the lights around 6400rpm's!.......Cliff

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by Hooter

I run the Molnar 6.7 rods on a Molnar 4.375 crank in my 65. Both were spot on.

Have you completed the new engine? Have not heard....All it takes is $$$

[1968GTO421]

Thanks everyone! Lots of great connecting rod info to reference before shopping.

https://www.crower.com/connecting-ro...-fit-9708.html

$908 for a set of bullet-proof rods, no not cheap but probably a lifetime of use.

[ponyakr]

"...probably a lifetime of use."

Just curious. Do you and others feel that the Chinese steel H-beams are like aluminum rods and only good for a short time, or for one build only ?

Such an idea seems ridiculous to me.

What would make a Crower rod last longer than an Egale H-beam ? Is there less stretch ? Less fatigue issues ? Has anybody used Eagle rods in more than one build, or in one engine for 15-20 years ?

I also noticed that Rocky Rotella said that the Pontiac Crower rods weight 850 grams. The Eagle & RPM Pontiac H-beams weigh only 760 grams. and the RPM I-beams even less. Pontiac guys are always talking down the Speed Pro forged pistons, because they are heavy. So, does rod weight not matter ?

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-...r-pontiac-v8s/

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

I also noticed that Rocky Rotella said that the Pontiac Crower rods weight 850 grams.

Yes.
The Pontiac Molnar rods are 766 grams and a few hundred $ less.
Anyone think the owner of this engine gave a crap about rod price?
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/13-p...fden-dyno.html
565 spinning 7400 RPM, nearly 900 horsepower.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by n2ogpsj462

This thread reminds me why I saved my pennies for an extra couple weeks and bought crowers. Zero negative press, spot on out of the box and spot on after 10yrs of lots of nitrous and boost. (My entire rotating assembly is currently at my machine shop and everything but my bore passed) although back then these were like 7-750$ I think?

If your budget allows, Crower connecting rods are premium quality. The steel is American, they are made, machined, and inspected in the USA by people who know what a connecting rod is. I still check them before installation but I don't remember ever touching one that had any issue. The same can't be said for any set of Chinese rods I have ever looked at. They may be within tollerance, but I don't think I have ever had a set of 8 that were spot on to .0001. Crower and Carillo are accurate to the 4th decimal.

[ponyakr]

In Rocky's article, he quotes Eagle as saying the the ESP H-beams are good to 1500hp, if you go with the better bolt upgrade. I just checked. the bolt upgrade is about $100 extra.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-...r-pontiac-v8s/

https://www.sparktecmotorsports.com/...AaArWaEALw_wcB

So, for low buck street guys who make well under 1500hp, maybe the Eagle rods are at least a get-by, until they can afford the heavier Crower rods.

For you 6, 7 & 8 sec heads-up guys, I assume that a few hundred extra bucks here & there makes no difference at all. So, there is no reason for you to buy cheap rods or cranks, made with Chinese steel.

By the way, Chinese steel is supposed to get a 25% tariff soon. Wonder if that will increase the price of Chinese rods & cranks ?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...301-story.html

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

In Rocky's article, he quotes Eagle as saying the the ESP H-beams are good to 1500hp, if you go with the better bolt upgrade. I just checked. the bolt upgrade is about $100 extra.

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp-...r-pontiac-v8s/

https://www.sparktecmotorsports.com/...AaArWaEALw_wcB

So, for low buck street guys who make well under 1500hp, maybe the Eagle rods are at least a get-by, until they can afford the heavier Crower rods.

For you 6, 7 & 8 sec heads-up guys, I assume that a few hundred extra bucks here & there makes no difference at all. So, there is no reason for you to buy cheap rods or cranks, made with Chinese steel.

By the way, Chinese steel is supposed to get a 25% tariff soon. Wonder if that will increase the price of Chinese rods & cranks ?

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-f...301-story.html

All excellent points. I've heard that if a person has a conscientious machinist with sound experience, he can thoroughly check out the Chinese rods and make sure they are within spec. My concern would be the well known impurities in the Chinese steel that can cause fractures. But on a low rpm street engine, after a thorough machinist check, I would say they would most probably be far better than some old Pontiac rods with several million cycles on them. IMHO

[Steve C.]

When it came time to build my current 505 my rod choice was going to be either Eagle or Crower Sportsman rods. I choose the Eagle "ESP" H-beam rods with the bolt upgrade in a 6.8 length. The reason was the lighter weight and the $525 price. The only thing my engine builder did to them was his normal light hone on the pin end for finish. They have been in service for about 12 years. Last dyno session was 660 hp at 5900/6000 rpm.

( For my previous four engine combinations the rods used were Carillo and Crower )


.

[pastry_chef]

Anything good enough for Steve Morris is fine by me:
https://www.stevemorrisengines.com/s...ng-rods-1.html

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

When it came time to build my current 505 my rod choice was going to be either Eagle or Crower Sportsman rods. I choose the Eagle "ESP" H-beam rods with the bolt upgrade in a 6.8 length. The reason was the lighter weight and the $525 price. The only thing my engine builder did to them was his normal light hone on the pin end for finish. They have been in service for about 12 years. Last dyno session was 660 hp at 5900/6000 rpm.

( For my previous four engine combinations the rods used were Carillo and Crower )


.

Thanks, Steve. I wondered about the better Eagle rods (Scat too). Thanks for letting us know your experience. With my engine being under 5500 rpm and 95% street, your info is good to have.

[phil400]

So for the guy on a budget, who's not building a 500 hp monster but a mild 350~375hp engine, which rod is the way to go?
What if you had a set of factory rods that you knew for a fact were very low mileage would that be better then the cheap 5140?..... I've read so many posts on rods now my head is spinning.

[ponyakr]

"...What if you had a set of factory rods that you knew for a fact were very low mileage would that be better then the cheap 5140?..."

Raced my '69 RA3 engine for 2 seasons, after 60k+ street miles, then rebuilt it, with the same rods, raced it some more, then TJ drove it on the street for a couple of more years. Went 6000 rpm lots of times. with no rod problems.

Back in the '70's & '80's, I built several 455's for bracket racing. All of 'em but one, had stock cast rods, which had NOT been resized. All had the heavy TRW L2359F pistons. We shifted 'em all at 5000 rpm. All cars had a rev limiter, set at 5500 rpm. All engines hit the rev limiter a few times, for various reasons, including broken trans & rear ends, and lost traction. Made many hundreds of passes, without a single rod failure.

I've always read that they are safe to 5500 in a 455, and 6000 in a 400. My experience agrees with this. I would never run a cast rod 455 without a rev limiter. And today, I'd probably set it on 5200, but not over 5400, just to be on the safe side. A mild street 455 will easily make 375hp without ever going past 5000 rpm.

Most all the rods I used in my 455's came out of 455's which had 100k miles or more, when I pulled 'em out of the old junk yard cars. Most came out of early '70's Grand Villes. I gave $75 each, for the entire engine. Precious memories.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by phil400

So for the guy on a budget, who's not building a 500 hp monster but a mild 350~375hp engine, which rod is the way to go?
What if you had a set of factory rods that you knew for a fact were very low mileage would that be better then the cheap 5140?..... I've read so many posts on rods now my head is spinning.

Not meant as a put down in any way. But if your stated design/build goals are 375 HP@ 6000 RPM. , any stock cast Pontiac rod would be just fine if it had new bolts installed, and was re-sized right to specs. Also, any Chinese aftermarket forged rod would be fine as well. But it too, would need to be checked and corrected/rebuilt as needed. At that power level, it's not about the material. It's all about the parts being the right size and having decent fasteners holding the parts together. A rod failure at that power level is from some other problem, from assembly to improperly sized parts. Find a really good machine shop and don't worry too much about the parts themselves. A poor machine shop can ruin a set of $2000.00 Carillo connecting rods.

[Steve C.]

Back in the '70's & '80's, I built several.................

Onward 40 + years .


.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by ponyakr

"...What if you had a set of factory rods that you knew for a fact were very low mileage would that be better then the cheap 5140?..."

Raced my '69 RA3 engine for 2 seasons, after 60k+ street miles, then rebuilt it, with the same rods, raced it some more, then TJ drove it on the street for a couple of more years. Went 6000 rpm lots of times. with no rod problems.

Back in the '70's & '80's, I built several 455's for bracket racing. All of 'em but one, had stock cast rods, which had NOT been resized. All had the heavy TRW L2359F pistons. We shifted 'em all at 5000 rpm. All cars had a rev limiter, set at 5500 rpm. All engines hit the rev limiter a few times, for various reasons, including broken trans & rear ends, and lost traction. Made many hundreds of passes, without a single rod failure.

I've always read that they are safe to 5500 in a 455, and 6000 in a 400. My experience agrees with this. I would never run a cast rod 455 without a rev limiter. And today, I'd probably set it on 5200, but not over 5400, just to be on the safe side. A mild street 455 will easily make 375hp without ever going past 5000 rpm.

Most all the rods I used in my 455's came out of 455's which had 100k miles or more, when I pulled 'em out of the old junk yard cars. Most came out of early '70's Grand Villes. I gave $75 each, for the entire engine. Precious memories.

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Not meant as a put down in any way. But if your stated design/build goals are 375 HP@ 6000 RPM. , any stock cast Pontiac rod would be just fine if it had new bolts installed, and was re-sized right to specs. Also, any Chinese aftermarket forged rod would be fine as well. But it too, would need to be checked and corrected/rebuilt as needed. At that power level, it's not about the material. It's all about the parts being the right size and having decent fasteners holding the parts together. A rod failure at that power level is from some other problem, from assembly to improperly sized parts. Find a really good machine shop and don't worry too much about the parts themselves. A poor machine shop can ruin a set of $2000.00 Carillo connecting rods.

Thanks all. That is useful info

[phil400]

Mgarblik, no offense taken, all the info greatly appreciated, it's just whenever a question is asked it often turns into 500hp at 6000k or whatever, but what about the guy on a budget just wanting to build a solid street engine driven hard to have some fun.

I always said I was gonna use the 5140 rod when I built the engine, but if it's not any better then a stock with good bolts then what's the point of forking 300$+ shipping.

I want to run forged rods, but I have exchange rate + customs and duties to add to the price too. So a 300$ rod becomes closer 450~500$ for me.

The machine shop I'm using is a small local one man shop, been in business for the 30 years has a very good reputation, does all makes all models even farm equipment engines, and did some head work for me years ago.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by phil400

the guy on a budget just wanting to build a solid street engine driven hard to have some fun.

I always said I was gonna use the 5140 rod

I hear you, the forged 5140 over stock and get them inspected well.
Typically, it is not very long before most want to scale up power with ported heads and a roller cam. For such a case the 4340 steel would be a nice foundation to have already.
I'm a bit of a quality addict.

[mgarblik]

I understand the situation, especially with goods and services taxes and so forth. You already have the stock rods and a good machine shop, I would buy ARP rod bolts, have the stock rods properly rebuilt and be done with it. If you have any thought of exceeding 450-500 HP, or 6000 RPM's, then the forged aftermarket rods add a real margin of safety. But they need to visit your machine shop also before installation. They may need nothing at all. But most nowdays seem to come in slightly small, big/and/or small end. May need a touch in the hone. If you are considering going to a full floating wrist pin, at that point, boring and finishing stock rods for bushings makes them a poor choice. The cost to prep stock rods for full floating installation would put you right at the cost of a Chinese full floating forged rod. On a budget, in your stated HP range and RPM, cast factory rods don't scare me . I may be crazy, but they have been used for decades in all kinds of racing before the Chinese stuff was available. Good luck with the build. Around here, rebuilding a set of 8 rods properly for press fit would be around $150.00 labor plus the cost of the new bolts.