[MCronkGTO]

Starting a new thread since I mistakenly titled the original thread as a 68. Some may recall the discussion about the number of options on the car vs the build sheet options. As was pointed out there are a couple of options that the factory would not install together, specifically AM-FM stereo with reverb, 8 track and rear window defogger. This was originally born a 350 2bbl car with rally gauges, A/C, power windows, PS, etc.... It currently has many more options that would not be easy to install such as tilt wheel, cruise control, Power front disc brakes, etc... As was discussed all these are correct for the year and application, function correctly, appear to be in same condition as the factory installed options.

I did purchase the car and will post pictures as soon as the weather allows. It is a 77k mile car and I have since done some research regarding the previous owners and possibly how all these options ended up on the car.

There is a plate on the console that says "This car built especially for TL Devecchio by Pontiac Motor Division". Over the years I have seen may decals/plaques/tags put on cars by previous owners for various reasons. However this has me intrigued because of the many options on the car.

Upon research of records/receipts that came with the car Mr. Devecchio was the original purchaser and very meticulous about record keeping and care of his car. The car was bought at Stan Olsen Pontiac in Omaha Nebraska. The salesman was a Mr. Lee Couch and a photo copy of his business card showed a line drawing of a sofa/couch and the words "rest assured". The owner promptly moved to California and kept meticulous records of every oil change, warranty repair, maintenance and even gas mileage records from original purchase till he sold it in 2000. He must have been an accountant or engineer. He created his own hand drawn maintenance and gas mileage tables that included information such as VIN of car, engine type and HP, tire rotation diagram, tune up information, etc... Let's just say he was quite "anal" about his car. It appears the car was used very little from 1981 to present only racking up less than 2,000 miles. This explains the like new condition but obviously not restored. The car stayed in California with a Mr. Tom Castell until May of 2012 when a local (East Central Florida) purchased the car and had it shipped. Mr. Casteel hardly drove the car putting maybe 1,000 miles on the car in 12 years. I purchased it from the person who bought it from Mr. Castell after he owned it for a little over a year. Technically I am the 4th owner.

The car is a time capsule and has had some light detailing done but not restored. I am hoping to speak with the second owner, as he is still in California, to determine when all the options were installed on the car. I have a couple of "theories" of which one is simply a previous owner added them. However they all seem to have been on the car from very early in it's life and there are no receipts or records of the original owner purchasing them. He was so meticulous with records (even has receipt and installation instructions for the air shocks he purchased at Sears in 1980) that if he had purchased them there would have been an entry in his logs. I also have receipts from the second owner for maintenance work on the car and no indication he added the options. The third owner was local and a good friend painted the car and knows exactly what the third owner did to the car. My other "theory" is that the dealer, upon request from the original purchaser, added most of these options that are not on the build sheet. I am hoping to possibly get a copy of the original sales contract are at least get some confirmation from the second owner.

The tag on the console is very interesting. It appears to have been put on the car since new. More to come as I research this and I will post some pictures soon.

Mark C

[JVM225]

You never know hat the dealer may have installed at the request of the buyer.
Years ago there was an Oldsmobile dealer in this region that sol a tone of Cutlass's when they were the hottest seller.
The dealer would get basic cars and add all kinds of things for the customers, and some on spec. Most of the things were factory type options like vinyl roofs, etc..
At the time, my brother-in-law worked for a competing dealer and he pointed it out to me.
I'm not saying the original selling dealer of your Le Mans was doing stuff like that, but it was pretty common for sealers to install an option or two in a car they had in stock in order to make it fit what a customer wanted.

[robz]

Probably dealer installed, I agree...as well as that plate on the console (maybe owner asked for it) as I seriously DOUBT Pontiac would ever make a plate on the console reflecting what the dealer installed afterwards...Sounds like an interesting car ...Post the pics when you can...

[MCronkGTO]

I recently owned a 71 Lemans Sport T41 option car. I was fortunate enough to receive the original dealership sales contract which had several dealer installed options on it including sport mirrors and 8-track. They were the correct factory options but installed at the dealership.

Dealers would "load up" a car if the customer wanted it and could pay for it. I did find an entry in the original owners logs about a cruise control kit purchased around 1974 for $66. That was the only mention of any options. This car has about 15 additional options that were not on the PHS.

A long time ago I purchased an original owner 69 GTO that was also Warwick Blue, Parchment top but with a Parchment interior. The car had deluxe wheel covers on it but when I got the PHS it had Rally II wheels on it. I questioned the original owner and he said when he drove it off the lot new it had the wheel covers on it. I suspect the dealer swapped the Rally II's on to another car to make a sale. I won Concourse restored with it at the 91 GTOAA Nationals then sold it a couple of years later to Don Lightfoot. I believe he was from Montreal.

Mark C

[robz]

Originally Posted by MCronkGTO

A long time ago I purchased an original owner 69 GTO that was also Warwick Blue, Parchment top but with a Parchment interior. The car had deluxe wheel covers on it but when I got the PHS it had Rally II wheels on it. I questioned the original owner and he said when he drove it off the lot new it had the wheel covers on it. I suspect the dealer swapped the Rally II's on to another car to make a sale. I won Concourse restored with it at the 91 GTOAA Nationals then sold it a couple of years later to Don Lightfoot. I believe he was from Montreal.

Mark C

Hmmm.. I think I may know Don thru another friend (North).....Seemed like a nice car!

[MCronkGTO]

Unfortunately we have had record rainfall the last couple of days so I have not been able to get the Lemans out of the garage. However here are a couple of "garage" shots.

Mark C

[nytrainer]

Wow! Beautiful car there Mark.

[demonic68]

Wow beautiful car reminds me of what my 68 used to look like

[north]

1... I'm jealous! record rainfall sure beats 8" of new snow and 4 below (Fahrenheit)

2...beautiful color scheme!

2...dealer add on were very common back then but the choices had already begun to be reduced due to safety regs and complexity. Common common options included
hood tachs, rear speakers, remote and visor mirrors, mats, hubcaps, power trunks, 8 tracks and radio upgrades, power brakes or steering, defogger, safe-t-track etc.

Things like Ram Air, PW, power antenna or power locks etc were not dealer options and if a buyer insisted the parts would have to be ordered piece by piece from the parts department and installed.

for example even something relatively easy like a power antenna required ordering 18 separate items and the install process was substantial:
-use a special punch to cutout the wood grain trim to receive the switch,
-install the switch and connect to power supply
-remove the existing coaxial cable and the antenna itself from the fender
-weld shut and refinish upper fender
-remove front and rear seat to pass the power and coaxial cable to the rear of the car
-cut the rear quarter and install the mast with various brackets and washers etc

This would cost a fortune compared to the $33 for factory installation. Similar situation with things like tilt column.

Last point there was no restriction preventing the ordering of both 8 track and defogger

[MCronkGTO]

Now that I have had a chance to really inspect the car I can tell a few of the options were probably installed by a previous owner.

The deal is the 8 track/rear window defogger could be ordered together like you said. However this car also has code 391 (rear speaker sepra phonic on the original PHS) and the sales sheet shows that you could not order code 404 rear defogger with code 391. Also the car has code 388 AM-FM stereo radio which requires 2 rear speakers and could not be ordered with code 391. And it has code 392 Verba phonic with rear speaker which also could not be ordered with code 391.

Since code 391 is on the original PHS and none of the other options listed above are I assume they were either dealer installed or owner installed. The funny thing is that everything works as it should and the install looks factory correct.

Another quirk I discovered is that the driver bucket is power operated and so is the passenger bucket. Both use the same track/motor assembly and a control knob that looks identical to the factory one but I don't think the entire assembly is. I am not that familiar with power buckets but know there was not a passenger power seat option. It looks like someone might have adapted a driver side bucket power assembly to the passenger side.

Yes, I do enjoy the moderate climate here. It will be in the low 80's this weekend and probably the low 70's on Christmas. We don't get our "cold" weather till February.

Hope to get some decent shots of the car to post soon.

Mark C

[north]

I've always liked optioning up cars, makes them nicer looking and more pleasant to use. Plus it's a fun challenge for each addition project.

I was in south Florida a few weeks back, gave my body a last dose of humid heat, salt water and sun. Hopefully it will tide me over for a few months.

Here is a shot or two of my LeMans. Sorry for the vanity pose!

[north]

Another one

[MCronkGTO]

Nice cars! I find myself more interested in the "lesser" seen cars now days. You see so many GTO's that when you see a Lemans/Tempest in just as nice shape it stands out.

I noticed you have several 69 cars both A, B, and F body. That is cool! I also have a 69 Firebird and a 67 Grand Prix.

I have a question about the 69 Lemans grille. Mine has some faded and worn spots just below the headlights and on vertical surfaces surrounding the headlights. The sliver on the grille edges is in nice shape but I need to refinish the faded/worn spots. The color appears to be a very low gloss black almost a flat black or charcoal gray. Do you know what paint color is correct? Also the color around the headlights seems to be a little darker but I can't tell if it is because the other grille parts are faded.

Thanks.

Mark C

[north]

Can you post a pic of your grilles? The reason I ask is that there were two different grilles due to a mid year change to darker grilles.

[nogto]

Excuse me for hijacking the thread, but you make an interesting point. I had always wondered about the black vs. silver grilles. I thought it was a Lemans vs Tempest thing, but you said it was a mid year change. My Lemans has darker black and silver grilles and the build date was May 69. I have attached a picture of the original type grille next to a silver grille I purchased by mistake. I think the black grilles look so much better. To me the black should be more of a satin finish that fades to flat with age.

[north]

My car is a November 68 build and it has the lighter ones. I bought two NOS ones over for the years for the same reason, the originals have dulled out and the paint is thin in places, problem is is that I got one of each!

I've done research since and they did create new part numbers for the dark ones. Both Have a paint pattern that would be tough to duplicate, the different shades between the face and sides of the grille bars makes it a ball breaker.

I agree that the dark ones look nicer but I've left mine for now as is. I'm hoping to find a second light one NOS to avoid painting.

Btw they did the same for the bonneville grilles that year but not the Catalina. I guess they did it for esthetic reasons.

[MCronkGTO]

Good info on the grilles. I am on vacation but will send pics once I get back home. My Lemans is a later production and definitely has the darker grilles. The original owner did a very nice job of painting the silver on but the dark areas are very flat and worn in spots.

I did get to talk to the second owner of the car and he was able to shed some light on the unusual number of options on the car. He also confirmed the low mileage on the car.

I don't have all the details with me but basically the car was ordered by TJ Vecchio (unfortunately he has passed) when he wrecked his 68 Camaro and was given a 69 Leman's as a loaner. TJ was so impressed he ordered one for himself. He purchased the car in Nebraska and promptly moved to San Jose Ca. He was so meticulous he kept detailed records of every fill up (gas mileage) and maintenance work including warranty work done on the car. Sometime around 1981 he no longer used the car and it was parked/stored. The PHS on the car shows only about half the options currently on the car. TJ had a lot of the options added by a Pontiac dealer. Most are correct but some were later model year options that would work. For instance the door locks are factory electric locks from a later model year and not vacuum operated (TJ complained the vacuum locks did not work well). The dome light is a 70 model with the map lights. I do have a receipt for the purchase and install of the factory cruise control. The second owner (Tom Casteel) said he was interested in the car due to the unusual number of options and the excellent condition. He saw the car on a consignment lot and purchased it for $7,500 in 2000. He spoke at length with TJ about the car and learned of some interesting stories about the car. The second owner said the badge on the console (which says "this car built for TJ Vecchio by Pontiac Motor Division") was on the car when he got it. The second owner continued to keep mileage records and owned the car until mid 2012 and had put less than 1,200 miles on the car from 2000 to 2012. It was always a "special car" and only used for shows. He continued to install more options on the car and added the Rally II wheels (later model 15 X 7). Correct AM-FM stereo radio (and wired it to work with the reverb), rear sway bar from 70 GTO, 69 4 barrel intake and a NOS SR quadrajet for 69. He also added the chrome factory air cleaner lid and valve covers correct for 69. He confirmed the front windshield had been replaced (small crack in it when he got car) and the rear window was replaced as well (bowling ball hit car - that is an interesting story). He also had the A/C compressor replaced with a NOS one and got the A/C working great. He had the motor pulled, resealed, and replaced the original nylon timing gear and chain! He commented on how the dash was not faded or cracked and that he found the original rear seat belts wrapped in newspapers from 1969 and underneath the rear seat. He said TJ had at one time installed a CB radio (explains 2 small holes on side of console) which required a different antenna. However he found the original antenna stored in the trunk. The spare is a white lettered polyglass tire that was from the first set of replacement tires put on the car in 1974. The second owner sold the car in mid 2012 to a gentlemen near my town in Florida. This person had my friend paint the car and had all the fluids changed. Unfortunately he had to sell the car and that is where I come in. The car only has 77k miles and is in excellent condition.

The original owner was so particular about this car that he made detailed instructions. I found a hand written tag taped to the back of the license plate frame (writing matched detailed records) that had instructions on measuring from bottom of license plate to ground to properly level the car with the air shocks he installed. The second owner told me he has a picture that TJ took of the trunk and how he packed it for his trips. The mileage records show several long trips back to Nebraska and other points in California. The second owner says he has some more paperwork on the car that he will send me.

So the mystery is starting to unfold about all the options on the car but I am finding some cool history about the car.

My goal is to preserve and continue taking great care of this car. I will drive it some but only locally. I have 3 other Pontiac's and have hardly put more than 300 miles a year on any of them.

Mark C

[MCronkGTO]

Finally had some good weather and was able to get a few pictures. Unfortunately the light changed during the photo shoot but I got a few good ones.

Mark C

[MCronkGTO]

A few more.

Mark C

[webfoot]

I love that shade of blue. Nice car!