[Cliff R]

Never used any "special" oils here and never had any issues with lobe failures on flat tappet cams.

I do however use USA made lifters and absolutely and for sure make sure ALL the pushrods are spinning after the initial "run-in" of the engine. During assembly I take a white paint marker and put a line on each pushrod just above the guideplates. Once we get the engine settled in and down to a slow idle speed, timing set, idle mixture screws, etc, it is shut down, valve covers removed, and started up so I can verifiy that all the pushrods are actually spinning.

I try to get the idle speed down as low as possible for that test to minimize the mess. IF you have a pushrod that isn't spinning the lobe has already beginning to fail.

Once that test if complete the oil filter is removed and cut open for inspection before contuing with dyno pulls, etc. I also do a close inspection while the valve covers are off and look in the "pockets" on the heads where oil can pool up. If you are grinding something up in the assembly it will show up in the oil filter media and in the pockets where oil is trapped under the valve covers.

The cam lobe failure topic has seen a LOT of coverage in the last 15 years or so, with all sorts of opinions and theory as to why we see so many failures. It boils right down to cheap/soft offshore or South of the border tappents being used that aren't made of high nickely iron and poorly finished on the bottom so they "scrub" and don't spin propertly in operation.......IMHO. Of course it still makes sense to use top quality lubricants and additives to help protect metal parts in the assembly. Here I use Lucas OIl Stabilizer in everything and have for decades.........

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by 64speed

THIS! The label leads you to believe there is nothing wrong with continuing use beyond break in.

So then use it.!

You only seem to know how to hit the thank you button when you read or see what you want. Never mind what other people are telling you from experience. Just saying.
You can be our test pilot on using break in oil in everyday use. Report back to us in a couple of years time with results. Thank you. (No disrespect intended)

[chuckies76ta]

Here's a good read from Amsoil on there break in oil. https://amsoilcontent.com/ams/lit/da...tins/g2881.pdf

Note there recommendation in the last paragraph. Afterward, drain and fill the engine with an AMSOIL high-performance synthetic oil that meets builder or
manufacturer specifications.

Here is a good oil that will protect you engine after break in. https://www.amsoil.ca/p/z-rod-10w-40...motor-oil-zrd/
Engineered for classic vehicles
• Helps retain horsepower
• High-zinc formula protects flat-tappet cams, lifters, rockers & other critical components
• Protects against rust during storage

[chuckies76ta]

Oh, one other thing. Put a good oil filter on your engine when running it. 51258 Wix comes to mind. It filter down to 21 microns. Has no bypass to push dirty oil through your engine. Flows 9-11 gallons per minute. and has a burst rate around 350 lbs. New engines are very costly and can create alot of stress. Good luck. Hope everything goes well with whatever you decide.

[78w72]

good lord! why does anyone think they need 1900 or 2000+ zinc/phos for most of these cams used in street engines? for break in those numbers are fine, but once the cam is broken in if you think you need that much zddp you are seriously misled or mistaken.

apparently this falls on deaf ears, but good quality normal oils have enough zddp to protect stock or smaller cams without super strong valve springs. modern longer lasting zddp doesnt need the high numbers of older oils, combined with other modern anti wear additives they protect as good or better than older oils that needed the super high levels to do their job.

modern oils have ~900ppm or more of longer lasting zddp, plus the other additives. if youre at .500+ lift with stronger springs a "hot rod" type oil or yes even diesel oils is fine to use, but those with stock or smaller broken in cams that still think they need a crap load of zddp are wasting money on fancy oils. & running a break in oil with that high of zddp as a normal oil is not doing the engine or your wallet any good.

[zippy]

Wouldnt be to sure on the diesel oil these days. My 455, with XE274. Was in for 3 years, about 6000Km driving and not a lick of problem. Was running Royal Purple XPR. But that was getting hard to get and stupid expensive!! $17/L here. So, I researched. All things showed the Rotella T4 10w40 STILL had the same levels of ZDDP. I used to run it years ago no worries with my Nunzi 041 clone cam. Well, 2 trips to town and I knew something wasnt right. Yup, 2 lobes starting to grind down. About 50-60 miles maybe. Oil change and cam goes after being fine for 3 years.

[78w72]

each case is different, the cam/lifters could have been slowly going bad over those 3 years, hard to say what caused it or if it was oil related... have read comp & many others are using non american lifters these days. the 274 is approaching the "bigger" cam levels at almost .500 lift & probably strong springs.

diesel oils are not what they used to be, they got lower levels around 2007, but still as much or more than normal car oils. last new oil analysis i saw were still around 1000ppm, havent seen any confirmation they use the newer zddp though or how much of other modern additives.

i have the xe268 cam with correct but not very strong springs in a 400, its right at .480 lift, used the old SM rated rotella for a few years since i had a few gallons of it, since then i use post 2007 SN delo 400 or even normal name brand oils like valvoline or quaker state, been doing great for going on 13 years now with lots of hard street miles & some drag strip runs. just saying i wouldnt blame the oil, especially after only 50-60 miles of using it.

[zippy]

Well, I would blame the oil. Reason my Nunzi cam went, after many years of great use. When I went stroker, I re used that cam and lifters. All marked to each lobe so no cross matching. But, when assembled and into car, I used off the shelf oil. Was just for winter storage as it was late Oct when I got the motor installed into car. Next spring, Daughter seen snow melted and could get car out. She loved helping me build it. So, We re primed the system, and fired her up. No cam breakin needed as this was a 20 year old run cam. All things same, lifters rockers etc. 16 miles later. Yes 16. No 7 Exh ground off to base circle. Wouldnt exhale, so much cyl press couldnt open intake and bent pushrod. Hammered crank so hard it messed bearing and put the mains out of true. Just did an inframe clean and flush with 10g of Kerosene to try get all the bits out. No, crank was done. 300 mi later the no 7 rod have over .090 play on teh crank.... All because low ZDDP of off the shelf oil and my stupidity... That was another complete rebuild....

[78w72]

sorry to hear about your issues & thats fine if you blame the oil, but neither of us can say for sure what caused those issues, there are so many other factors that could have caused problems... but for both situations its highly unlikely a 1000+zddp diesel oil caused all that damage in 16 or 50 miles...

i can give plenty of examples of myself & lots of friends over 30 some years of driving that didnt/dont use crazy high zddp oils for similar sized or stock FT cams. my previous comp magnum .480 in a 455 that had a summit cam/lifter failure due to young beginner user error at break in & being cheaper lifter/cam metals... didnt flush anything or use a special filter, the magnum cam lived for 80k+ miles over almost 10 years of very hard use with normal brand name oils after the reductions of zddp but before i knew any better. currently the .477 lift xe268 is going on 13+ years of the use i mentioned, current diesel oil or normal oils used.

in my experience & many others with these types of cams or stock ones that many guys have here they do just fine on normal or slightly raised zddp oils.

[jhein]

FWIW, my builder uses Driven conventional break-in oil and told me to change it at 300 miles. Then he recommends Driven GP-1, 15w-40 synthetic blend after that.

[Cliff R]

"51258 Wix comes to mind. It filter down to 21 microns. Has no bypass to push dirty oil through your engine."

Good advice and good to know.

Here I have found the Baldwin B-39 to be excellent in one of these engines. No bypass and high flow, plus about 1/4" shorter than most others to just barely clear Hedman headers on a 67-69FB or 70-73 Ventura. I also block the oil filter bypass in the housing on my builds so ALL the oil is filtered......

[lust4speed]

Am I the only one that read "change your break in oil after X miles" to not mean "Break-in" oil, but simply whatever oil was used for break in needs to be changed out.

Don't think any oils are up around 2,000 PPM unless additional additives have been added. Oil companies delivered their premium oils in the 1,600 PPM range until the EPA stepped in, and now the best are usually around 800-1200 PPM range. For maximum wear protection were they wrong back then or wrong now?

Don't think there's much of a detergent package in any of the true racing oils including Valvoline VR-1 Racing.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by chuckies76ta

So then use it.!

You only seem to know how to hit the thank you button when you read or see what you want. Never mind what other people are telling you from experience. Just saying.
You can be our test pilot on using break in oil in everyday use. Report back to us in a couple of years time with results. Thank you. (No disrespect intended)

I was merely highlighting what I was referring too. I am always up to listen and learn.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

Am I the only one that read "change your break in oil after X miles" to not mean "Break-in" oil, but simply whatever oil was used for break in needs to be changed out.

Don't think any oils are up around 2,000 PPM unless additional additives have been added. Oil companies delivered their premium oils in the 1,600 PPM range until the EPA stepped in, and now the best are usually around 800-1200 PPM range. For maximum wear protection were they wrong back then or wrong now?

Don't think there's much of a detergent package in any of the true racing oils including Valvoline VR-1 Racing.

That's correct, there isn't. Least not years ago when I was using VR-1 in the street cars. I surprisingly found with oil analysis that I wasn't doing a very good job maintaining my engine using it when I was trying to stretch change intervals to the normally preached 3,000 miles. That's why I stopped using it way back then.

Some of the best oils out there today are up in the 1400-1600 PPM's when tested new, they aren't break in oils, so they have excellent additive packages to go along with that for decent longevity so you don't have to change the oil so frequently.

Most of these "racing" oils, and break in oils, don't have those additive packages. The idea is that it's expected these will be changed more frequently.

[Steve C.]

"Specifically formulated for race-level protection in all classic and modern high-performance vehicles, including flat-tappet and performance cam engines"

That from the VR1 Product information:

https://sharena21.springcm.com/Publi...2-ac162d889bd1


Valvoline at one time stated their Not Street Legal oil is only recommended for 500 mile oil changes, while the VR1 is a 3 month/3,000 mile oil.

( Information provided in this post does not represent any endorsement and is offered for general interest only )


.

[68WarDog]

What do your engine builder recommend? My builder recommends removing the break in oil after approximately 100-200 miles when rechecking valve lash, heads/ intake stud/ bolt retorquing, and plug reading

[64speed]

Originally Posted by 68WarDog

What do your engine builder recommend? My builder recommends removing the break in oil after approximately 100-200 miles when rechecking valve lash, heads/ intake stud/ bolt retorquing, and plug reading

I am my engine builder this time

[Cliff R]

What folks need to realize with all of this is that in the early years of this hobby, which for me started in the 1970's we NEVER once had a single issue with any of this stuff.

There was no "special" procedures used much beyond smearing the cam with some moly grease or the "red" tacky stuff supplied with some cams by the manufacturer. Then we'd run them a few minutes around 1500rpm's or so, listening and looking for anything unusual, etc. Once that was over quickly verify timing, idle mixture screws adjusted, idle speed, then go out and drive the car like you stole it! Seldom if ever did we even dump that oil till a couple hundred miles were racked up.

In those times loosing a cam lobe wasn't even on the radar.

ALL of that started when the first Mexican and Offshore lifters started showing up. I beleive those issues and amplified by more aggressive lobe profile cams and the "heavy" spring loads the manufacturers of them are recommending.

I say that because I've witnessed engines built by some of the most experienced engine builders out there, who went for decades and never had any issues, etc......LOOSE half the lobes on a cam while it was being "run-in" on the dyno before they could make a "pull" on it!

It is my opinion that special oils, lubricants, additives or procedures aren't the answer here. You either have good parts or you don't. Trying to save a cam topped with "soft" lifters, poorly machined, not crowned correctly, not spinning in use, etc is not the job of the lubricants being used. Those are fundamental issues and sadly enough there are scenarios where we just can't do too much about it.........FWIW.......

[chuckies76ta]

Originally Posted by 64speed

I was merely highlighting what I was referring too. I am always up to listen and learn.

Ok, Thank you. Was having a bad day. I'm sorry. My apologizes for posting that.

[64speed]

Well hopefully Crower and an abundance of caution are up to the task