[Skip Fix]

FWIW my Mopar buddy just spent over $1K for the "good" HR lifters for his motor.

[Cliff R]

Good move Skip.

Most of the HR lifters sold in the $350-500 range aren't that great. They have made changes to them for the better over the years, but still having issues with quality control when it comes to plunger to lifter body clearances and leak down rates.

The more expensive lifters are far superior to the cheap ones in terms of internal tolerances. Some builders refuse to use the Morel stuff to this day and will only use the more expensive Johnson varieties.

What we see with the cheaper variety are problems at high RPM's on the dyno and power falling off around 5500-5800rpms. If you run into that scenario you can install a set of Crower HIPPO lifters and the same engine will rev right past 6000rpm's so quickly it will scare you!

Coincidentally I just had this discussion couple of days ago with a very experienced engine builder who is 72 years old and building engines full time for a living dating clear back over 40 years. We agreed on one thing, they need to step up the game on retrofit HR lifters as he just finished an engine build where the owner supplied his own HR's and it went DEAD on his dyno just past 5000rpm's. He called me asking if I had ever seen this, and the discussion went right into quality and internal tolerances we are seeing with these parts, etc

I'll add here and it's not Pontiac but related. My 2002 Road King was having issues with tappet noise and high RPM lifter "crash". The engine was professionally built with tons of upgrades but the builder re-used the factory Delphi HR's.

I purchased and installed these (I actually ordered the more expensive ones with the positive pin oiling feature):

https://www.amazon.com/Tappets-Lifte.../dp/B012E5FJ68

That move INSTANTLY corrected all the issues I was seeing with engine including noise and lifter "crash" at high RPM's.....FWIW......Cliff

[ponjohn]

So with all this said...

If money were no object what would the pecking order be for Hyd Roller lifters?

[Formulajones]

I don't know if you're out of the water spending more on the lifters. Dad ran the high dollar ones in his engine, bushed with oil feed to the roller etc....and it still ate one, with very moderate spring pressures for the applicaton.
I've never had issues with any of the hydraulic rollers I've used in Pontiacs or any other engine as far as internal clearances go. The problem with the Morels from what I understand from Paul is that they had an issue of the pins breaking at the wheel and why he doesn't recommend them. He prefers Johnson. Supply right now from what I'm told is difficult though.

[tom s]

The pontiac hyd roller lifter deal keeps coming up.To date the only hyd roller lifter that has the oil band in the proper location is the Comp lifter made by Shaver.ALL others are SBC with pontiac like bars.We run 150-160 on the seats and they make HP to 7000.I just ordered another set for my new RA V build.Tom

[Formulajones]

We spin them up here without issue as well.

Now that you mention it Tom, I think it was the Shavers that Paul said they had issues with the pin at the wheel breaking in the past, not the Morels. I think he told me it hasn't been an issue in a while but like most of us when something happens, even if it's been a while, we tend to shy away from them moving forward.

[Cliff R]

It's a crying shame that GM, Ford, Mopar and others can build engines with HR lifters in them that will go 250,000 miles with ease and NEVER have any lifter issues.

These retro-fit HR's have always been a problem area, and sort of a "crap shoot" when you purchase a set. Some function and last fine, no high RPM issues, where others will have at least one "ticker" in the bunch and go dead at higher RPM's.

I've installed quite a few sets, and you just never know what's going to show up in the box no matter where you source them out at, unless you buy Johnson or Crane (when they sold them).

I noticed that Comp HR's (for example) used to have more travel in them, and "softer" spring under the plungers. More recently they are shorter travel and stronger plunger springs, and seem to be quieter and less high RPM issues as well. I still like and use Johnson and have had zero issues with them to date, but we did get out of the engine building business a few years ago, so there could be further improvements that I haven't seen in currently available products..

One thing I can tell anyone reading this for certain is that IF you have a 2002 or later Harley Davidson and noisy lifters, replace the Delphi lifters with Hylift Johnson and get the "rocker lockers" made for those engines as well, you'll be glad you did.......Cliff