[Tenney]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Tenney,
I see the exhaust. I hear the engine and a little of the tires. We really need to see you go though the gears a little harder.

I know. You need to bring the car back to Woodward during the Dream Cruise and let John "Cheater" Politzer launch it off one of the lights along side the Black Bird!Than we will put it on the net.LOL

Now that would be putting everything back where it belongs...LOL

Eric

A banner day that'd be, Eric! Maybe w/proper meats like last time (a bit tougher on parts than the bicycle tires, though!)?

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Tenney

A banner day that'd be, Eric! Maybe w/proper meats like last time (a bit tougher on parts than the bicycle tires, though!)?

Tenney,
You only live once! I am glad to see the '64 is not garage art. But, you are not running a fuel dragster or funny car with a blower and nitro methane. The parts will be just fine with some "meats" on the back. Just not too sticky of a compound. A pair of Mickey Thompson Sportsman Pro's should be just right.

Nice picture of the rear of the '64 at the Dream Cruise with some slicks on it. We should have had the two cars parked next to each other. At least they shared the same location.

Eric

[Tenney]

Originally Posted by SD421

Maybe I need to start my OWN dairy farm!!!!! LOL

Don

...

[SD421]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SD421
Maybe I need to start my OWN dairy farm!!!!! LOL

Don

Originally Posted by Tenney

...

For me??? !!! lol

That's cool Tenney.

-Don

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Here is another 1968 GTO Royal Bobcat test. I want you to note all of the people involved in this test watching from the fence. Thes are the guys from Royal Pontiac.
Sessions like these are private track rentals. Closed to the public. Royal Brought out approximately one car person. Jim Wangers would orginize a large test session like this with several cars and different magazine banners being drapped on the cars to represent the magazines the cars would appear in.

In this case you had Firebirds and GTO's. Dave and Sid Warren seen working on the cars. John Kosmala behind the wheel of the GTO with a Firebird ready to go with driver. Between the GTO and the Firebird you see Milt and Dave Warren along with some I can't I.D.

The is an example of how it is done. Several cars at one times. Not a test here a test there. This was done before the ram air II heads came out for 1968 GTO and Firebird articles I have already posted. Then after the RA II's came out a new barrage of magazine tests.

Look at see if it was at Motor City Dragway. Then study the background for other cars that are being tested. Most of the time every one tried to stay out of camera view. Including equipment, extra tires and other cars to be tested.

Much easier to bombard the magazines early. The magazines would spread these early tests out through the year. As the model year goes on and the cars get faster. More Royal tests would be published. Got to keep the HOT Pontiac's in your face all through the year.

Enjoy the going back and forth to study the articles and people, cars and equipment in the backgrounds. Mostly at Motor City Dragway, Lapeer Dragway and Ubly Dragway.

[brut4s]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Tenney,
I see the exhaust. I hear the engine and a little of the tires. We really need to see you go though the gears a little harder.

I know. You need to bring the car back to Woodward during the Dream Cruise and let John "Cheater" Politzer launch it off one of the lights along side the Black Bird!Than we will put it on the net.LOL

Now that would be putting everything back where it belongs...LOL

Eric

X3!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Royal Pontiac's 1968 Tempest coupe (post) 350 HO that was to be the format of Jim Wangers proposed 1969 ET Road Runner contender for Jr. Stock.

Brian Ballish wanted use the 744 camshaft had proven this car would have been even faster than the 068 it used in this test. But even with the 068 in the 350HO it showed that it was faster than the base 400/350HP in the goat. A no no...

Last page on following post.

Remember Jim Wangers name can never be mentioned in a magazine associated with Royal since 1964. So you will always think Milt came up with these ideas and had the others guys help him build it. As you read, observe and think about all of these articles. You begin to get the "REAL" picture of the back room at Ace Wilson's Royal Ponitac and the direct association with PMD just a few miles up the road.

Enjoy.

If you go back to this article on page one you will see Brian Balish standing in the back ground. He is standing behind the starting line as Dave Warren in the Road Runner launches against Milt in the Tempest 350HO. Brian is next to his tool box behind them. Brian and Dave could tune these cars like no bodies business.

[rad400]

What is the main differance between RAII heads and RAIV heads? I know same cam and the RAIV used 1.65 Rockers.

[LUST01]

The big difference is Ram Air IV's had bigger intake ports than the Ram Air II. The Ram Air II shared intake port size with the typical 1965 and up D-port head and was the first round port exhaust head. The 1971-72 455 HO and the 1973-74 455 SD had the bigger intake ports along with round exhaust ports too. The 455 SD intake ports were slightly bigger then the Ram Air IV intake ports. The 455 SD intake ports broke into the push rod holes and valve cover bolt holes. Tubes were inserted into the pushrod holes to seal the port and valve covers bolts must be in place and installed with thread sealer to prevent vacuum leaks.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

1968 Royal Pontiac's winter testing was done in Florida around February so the articles would hit the magazines in spring.

Here is the early testing of the Royal Pontiac's Royal Bobcat 1968 Ram Air engine vs the 1968 1/2 Ram Air II engine. Along with the information of the no extra cost of the new Ram Air II over the Ram Air I and the release date.

Look closely at the two GTO's. The Bobcat paint is visiable on the nose of one of the GTO's. Both cars have the pin stripe and Bobcat emblems on the front fenders and doors.
Enjoy.

[rad400]

I think Pontiac should have use The round ports in the GTO and the Tans AM Grand Prixs and "D" ports in wagons Bonniville, ect.

[rad400]

This might be pointless but I think the RAII should have had the 744 cam and the RAIII with round ports 041 with 1.5s for 69 and RA IV '70 041 with 1.65 rockers.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Say good night to the Blackbird as it is now in hibernation for the long Michigan winter.

[Keith Seymore]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Say good night to the Blackbird as it is now in hibernation for the long Michigan winter.

I thought birds migrated south for the winter...

(lol)

[LUST01]

The Ram Air III was never a official designation used by Pontiac until 1970. The Ram Air numbers, other than the 1970 Ram Air III, the 1969-70 Ram Air IV & V were invented by fans. The Ram Air II was never officially named the Ram Air II but the name was mentioned in an internal service bulletin that mentioned the round port Ram Air motor was superseding the D-port Ram Air motor and the name was also mentioned in a print add. The offical designation for the "Ram Air III" in 1969 was still the 400 HO. The ram air equipment was included with this engine with the 1969 GTO but was not included with this engine in the 1969 Firebird except for the Trans Am. As mentioned in this earlier in this thread, the Ram Air IV was not named from it's preceived place in Ram Air development but was named after the proposed four place ram air system (two scoops on the hood and two behind the grill) that never made it into production.

[LUST01]

I just want to say once again that this is a great thread thanks to Dr. Schiffer and Mr. Seymore. Thanks for keep in history straight on what was happing on the streets of Detroit and behind the doors of Pontiac Engineering and Royal Pontiac during the muscle car era. Keep the stories coming!!

[rad400]

X2!

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by LUST01

The Ram Air III was never a official designation used by Pontiac until 1970. The Ram Air numbers, other than the 1970 Ram Air III, the 1969-70 Ram Air IV & V were invented by fans. The Ram Air II was never officially named the Ram Air II but the name was mentioned in an internal service bulletin that mentioned the round port Ram Air motor was superseding the D-port Ram Air motor and the name was also mentioned in a print add. The offical designation for the "Ram Air III" in 1969 was still the 400 HO. The ram air equipment was included with this engine with the 1969 GTO but was not included with this engine in the 1969 Firebird except for the Trans Am. As mentioned in this earlier in this thread, the Ram Air IV was not named from it's preceived place in Ram Air development but was named after the proposed four place ram air system (two scoops on the hood and two behind the grill) that never made it into production.

Here lets throw some thing else out there. The 1969 Ram Air IV was named by the amount of outlets that it was originally designed to bring air in from. Look back at the 1969 Lime Light Green press GTO's engine compartment. This is the GTO that later became the test magazine Judge. The air cleaner had two tubes running to the radiator core support, for two of the air intakes, along with two hood scoop air intakes above. Even though during the Ram Air III (Which is what it was called in the 1969 test) vs Ram Air IV. The article showed the Judges' four inlet air cleaner but called it Ram Air IV. Then the Ram Air IV Bobcat cars' air cleaner which did not have the core support tubes was used as the the III's air cleaner engine shot. Confussing?

Since the air cleaner did not go into production and the print ads and media had been told this "new" for 1969 engine was called Ram Air IV Pontiac and the public bought into it.

The early1968 Ram Air was just called that. Mcuh like the 1966 -1967. Just put a ram air tub on an HO motor. The round port that appeared in March/April at no extra cost was called 1968 1/2 Ram Air initially. Later in a few print ads it was called Ram Air II. The one that comes to mind is the 1968 Firebird ad calling it Ram Air II.
I'll try and find some of those old ads too.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Here lets throw some thing else out there. The 1969 Ram Air IV was named by the amount of outlets that it was originally designed to bring air in from. Look back at the 1969 Lime Light Green press GTO's engine compartment. This is the GTO that later became the test magazine Judge. The air cleaner had two tubes running to the radiator core support, for two of the air intakes, along with two hood scoop air intakes above. Even though during the Ram Air III (Which is what it was called in the 1969 test) vs Ram Air IV. The article showed the Judges' four inlet air cleaner but called it Ram Air IV. Then the Ram Air IV Bobcat cars' air cleaner which did not have the core support tubes was used as the the III's air cleaner engine shot. Confussing?

Since the air cleaner did not go into production and the print ads and media had been told this "new" for 1969 engine was called Ram Air IV Pontiac and the public bought into it.

The early1968 Ram Air was just called that. Mcuh like the 1966 -1967. Just put a ram air tub on an HO motor. The round port that appeared in March/April at no extra cost was called 1968 1/2 Ram Air initially. Later in a few print ads it was called Ram Air II. The one that comes to mind is the 1968 Firebird ad calling it Ram Air II.
I'll try and find some of those old ads too.

Now we can muddy the waters even more. Since the 1969 Tunnel Port Ram Air V, 303, 366, 400, 428 et.al., never became a regular production engine (RPO). The PMD marketing people suggested that the new for 1970 455 High Compression Ram Air IV head engine that engineering had been working on become the RPO Ram Air V. That way there would be a sequence of RPO Ram Air engines the public would understand.

Unforunately PMD's new General Manager had his own ideas and the marketing people changed. With the change in direction at PMD the high compression 455 Ram Air IV head engine was cancelled. The low compression 455 first as a d-port HO was first offered then the following year it became a round port HO then SD.

So, everything remained as we now know it. The Ram Air V is the Tunnerl Port engine no matter what cubic inch it is.

[Dr. Eric M. Schiffer]

Originally Posted by Dr. Eric M. Schiffer

Here lets throw some thing else out there. The 1969 Ram Air IV was named by the amount of outlets that it was originally designed to bring air in from. Look back at the 1969 Lime Light Green press GTO's engine compartment. This is the GTO that later became the test magazine Judge. The air cleaner had two tubes running to the radiator core support, for two of the air intakes, along with two hood scoop air intakes above. Even though during the Ram Air III (called the Judge in the test) vs Ram Air IV. The article showed the Judges' four inlet air cleaner but called it Ram Air IV. Then the Ram Air IV Bobcat cars' air cleaner which did not have the core support tubes was used as the the III's air cleaner engine shot. Confussing?

Since the air cleaner did not go into production and the print ads and media had been told this "new" for 1969 engine was called Ram Air IV Pontiac and the public bought into it.

The early1968 Ram Air was just called that. Mcuh like the 1966 -1967. Just put a ram air tub on an HO motor. The round port that appeared in March/April at no extra cost was called 1968 1/2 Ram Air initially. Later in a few print ads it was called Ram Air II. The one that comes to mind is the 1968 Firebird ad calling it Ram Air II.
I'll try and find some of those old ads too.

I have got to stop doing this between patients..LOL I keep runing out of time before I can proof the stuff and make my correction. Like on the test. It is as Matt said about Ram Air designations

So the correction I could not change in the 65 minutes is: The 1969 article did not call it Ram air III but: "Judge vs Ram Air IV". Which I was trying to change.

Sorry.

Eric