[The Champ]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I think what hurts McLeod is that TKO's have cornered that market for so long. I think the McLeod trans has the ability to be popular. I actually like the gear ratios much better than the TKO-600's.

Your comment caused me to look at the McLeod gear ratios - 2.95/1.99/1.34/1.00/.63.

I thought they were wider than the M23Z for 1st - 4th gear so I refreshed my memory on the 23Z ratios - 2.984/2.25/1.468/1.00. My memory was right.

I know you like your overdrives and I respect that.

But I'm really thinking even more seriously about the 23Z for my 3.08 geared 462 GTO with a 2.56 1st gear M20. The transmission is much less expensive, is a bolt in replacement and will utilize my "Pete Serio" restored Hurst shifter.

This would take my effective 1st gear ratio from 7.88 to 9.19. The car as built (and how I first drove it) had a 3.23 rear, so the original effective 1st gear ratio was 8.26.

The 23Z with the 3.08's equates to running a 3.59 rear gear with the original Muncie.

[tom s]

With all due respect a 3.5ish final gear sucks IMO for high way driving,been there done that.I would not even like a 3.0ish gear anymore.Tom

[goatless]

Been kicking around buying one of the McLeod 5 speeds for quite a while now. I have noticed that the reviews, while there still aren't many, have gotten better. Should have bought when Summit had them for around $2500 a while back.

The ratios seem like they'll suit the 3.08 rear in my TA pretty well. The deeper first gear will get off the line nice and the overdrive will great- cruising 80 mph at just over 2000 rpm.

[shoebox1.1]

A buddy of mine had a 79 TA with warmed up 455 and Doug Nash 5 speed. 2.73 or 3.08 gears iirc. Man it was fun!! Power everywhere!

[77 TRASHCAN]

Originally Posted by goatless

Been kicking around buying one of the McLeod 5 speeds for quite a while now. I have noticed that the reviews, while there still aren't many, have gotten better. Should have bought when Summit had them for around $2500 a while back.

The ratios seem like they'll suit the 3.08 rear in my TA pretty well. The deeper first gear will get off the line nice and the overdrive will great- cruising 80 mph at just over 2000 rpm.

Maybe Tom S. Can get his contact at Summit to make you a “Wal Mart” deal on one of those gear boxes!

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by tom s

With all due respect a 3.5ish final gear sucks IMO for high way driving,been there done that.I would not even like a 3.0ish gear anymore.Tom

Tom

I didn't state that all too well - the 3.59 was the equivalent of the rear gear with a M23Z in first gear only while actually running a 3.08 with the original '64 M20.

Yes, I'm running at a little over 2600 RPM at 70, but that's better than 3100+ with a set of 3.55's or 3.73's.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by The Champ

Tom

I didn't state that all too well - the 3.59 was the equivalent of the rear gear with a M23Z in first gear only while actually running a 3.08 with the original '64 M20.

Yes, I'm running at a little over 2600 RPM at 70, but that's better than 3100+ with a set of 3.55's or 3.73's.

That works for some and isn't a horrible way to go. If it were me I'd rather use a steep ST-10 to do the same thing for less money.
I have another car here I run 3.07's in with no overdrive. It's okay. Still cruising at 70-75 mph is hovering around 2800 rpm with a 28" tire. So it's still buzzing the engine pretty good. It's not a bad car to go on long trips with and doesn't really bother me, so I completely understand where you're coming from, but it's by no means anywhere near as good as an overdrive setup.

Our other car that is one of our daily drivers was an M-20 with 3.55's. With a 27" tire cruising 65 mph was right about 2900 rpm. Did that for a few years. But all that time knowing I wanted a 5 speed in that thing.
Now 65 mph is 1800 rpm. 70 is 2000, and the sweet part is I didn't kill any gear multiplication in the first few gears that many do with the M23Z when they drop to 3.08's to get a decent 4th gear cruise rpm. So it's a win win on both ends. But yeah, it's a bit more money.
One has to decide how much driving they are going to do and whether it's worth it. We have year round driving weather, and daily a couple of these cars, so it was by far a worth while investment, something I should have done years ago. Not to mention distances between towns here is a 100 mile trip one way, and 75 mph speed limits.
What was killing me was that I've done a zillion of these swaps for everyone else except myself. I had one classic I daily drove that I did an overdrive retro swap in years ago and I ended up selling the darn thing, and have been kicking myself ever since wanting back in the game.

[tom s]

As said many times,my 62 421 HO has the 3.42 first gear ST-10 and a 2.68 in the back with a 28in tire.Best of everything except strength for not a lot of money.Have had them behind a couple 421s in big cars.Actually made a few runs in the 63GP and never have broken one.With big sticky tires and constant hammering I would think you would be hurting main drive and cluster.That is the reason I have not put a 5 speed in it yet as it would require a rear gear change.Tom

[goatless]

Well, I guess none of us will be trying the McLeod Musclecar 5 speed any time soon. I noticed a few days ago that Summit had them listed as "unavailable", so I went to McLeod's website to see this note- "Due to unforeseen parts unavailability, the Muscle Car transmissions are on current back order. Please keep checking back for further updates."

[Formulajones]

Hmm, I know it's not the T5 parts inside the trans because those Z Spec World class gear sets are still being sold through Astro, and a couple other suppliers as well.

My guess would be whomever is casting those GM style T5 aluminum housings has an issue, or maybe they just weren't selling enough to warrant continued production.

[gtospieg]

Maybe Legend can get their production ramped up to meet the increased demand for a good 5 speed that does not require cutting the floor...

[Formulajones]

lol

[tom s]

Sorry I have not been able to get my butt up there and see whats going on.Just been too darn busy.Still on my mind.Tom

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by gtospieg

Maybe Legend can get their production ramped up to meet the increased demand for a good 5 speed that does not require cutting the floor...

They will need to start with getting their website and phone number back up since Legend disappeared from public view over two months ago. The last price I heard for the LGT-700 before shipping or extras was $2,000 over the delivered price of a TKO-600 with the perfect fit installation kit.

[Formulajones]

I'm surprised people are still hanging hope on Legend. I went round with that deal more than a couple years ago and even then it was getting ridiculous so I walked away from it.
Any company that can't deliver as promised on a timely schedule, and now can't seem to even stay in contact with the public I'd stay far away from. Been there done that with Keisler.

As much as I'd like to see that trans come back to fruition I'll avoid it until they get picked up by a well established company like Hurst or American Powertrain.

We've pretty much figured out anyway that with a few mods to the trans/crossmember and car, and the proper shifter on the TKO, there isn't much need to for chopping up floors on these swaps now so I don't view the "perfect fit" as a big selling point. SST is selling the TKO's as "perfect fit" kits now but that's not a surprise considering Keisler did the same, and have some of the same employees working for them now. I did like the Legend trans for it's strength qualities and more favorable gear ratios though.

[Formulajones]

Got the Z spec T5 done and driving it. Same ratios as the McLeod, and basically the same trans in a Ford case. For those interested, the car has 3.27 rear gears. The 2.95 first gear works pretty well with that deal. The .63 overdrive has the car cruising 65 mph at just 1800 rpm and it's pretty sweet. At 2,000 I'm doing about 72 mph. Climbing the grades around here effortlessly without loosing any speed. I'll keep it like this for the time being. Posi unit needs rebuilt so I may consider a little more rear gear at that point for a little more spunk and won't really hurt the cruise rpm much.

I do like these gear ratios much better than the TKO600 in our other car.

2.95/1.94/1.34/1.0 You can definitely tell a difference going through the gears they are spaced a bit closer. Unlike the TKO that has a pretty big RPM drop on the 2-3 (1.89/1.28) that you can really feel, there is none of that with the Z spec ratios. Doesn't look like much on paper but it's a big difference behind the wheel.

[MrWrestlingII]

Originally Posted by goatless

Well, I guess none of us will be trying the McLeod Musclecar 5 speed any time soon. I noticed a few days ago that Summit had them listed as "unavailable", so I went to McLeod's website to see this note- "Due to unforeseen parts unavailability, the Muscle Car transmissions are on current back order. Please keep checking back for further updates."

Looks like you can now order the Muscle Car 5 Speed from McLeod and Summit. I'll probably be waiting until next winter to make the swap, but nice to see it's not going the way of Legend.

[FrankieT/A]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

I'm surprised people are still hanging hope on Legend. I went round with that deal more than a couple years ago and even then it was getting ridiculous so I walked away from it.
Any company that can't deliver as promised on a timely schedule, and now can't seem to even stay in contact with the public I'd stay far away from. Been there done that with Keisler.

As much as I'd like to see that trans come back to fruition I'll avoid it until they get picked up by a well established company like Hurst or American Powertrain.

We've pretty much figured out anyway that with a few mods to the trans/crossmember and car, and the proper shifter on the TKO, there isn't much need to for chopping up floors on these swaps now so I don't view the "perfect fit" as a big selling point. SST is selling the TKO's as "perfect fit" kits now but that's not a surprise considering Keisler did the same, and have some of the same employees working for them now. I did like the Legend trans for it's strength qualities and more favorable gear ratios though.

I have the Keisler SS700 in my car... I received my trans after waiting 5 or 6 months and Keisler went out of business within weeks of my receipt. After that I physically went to SST and bought all the Keisler specific shifter parts I could. Mostly rubber boots.

The new owner (Silver) seems to be a great guy but I have not had any dealings with him since.

Incidentally, I have not had any problems with the trans and easily have 60,000 miles on it.

[Formulajones]

You're one of the lucky ones Frankie. When Keisler went out of business I had not yet received any of my order, only emails with excuses as to why things were delayed, the whole time knowing they were filing bankruptcy, and took my money anyway. I'm part of the class action lawsuit along with 100's of others that didn't receive their products and even after all these years it's still ongoing. Don't know if I'll ever see anything. They even owe SST a bunch of money to this day. I was talking with the owner of SST last year about that deal. It's a real mess, and was told at the time the current group that is working on the Legend trans hasn't paid their rent for the building they are in for months and were looking at eviction. SST tried to buy out a lot of stuff from Keisler as well as the current Legend deal, but most of it fell through. So even after all that I had hoped Legend would come around again but when I was told to put a deposit just to get on a waiting list, there was no way I was getting roped into that deal, after knowing what I knew already.
Lots of money owed to various people. Not a good deal all around and way too many details to lay out here. A lot of crooked things going on down there in Tennessee.

In a nut shell, I'd suggest people to look elsewhere and not wait on the Legend stuff.

[64speed]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

You're one of the lucky ones Frankie. When Keisler went out of business I had not yet received any of my order, only emails with excuses as to why things were delayed, the whole time knowing they were filing bankruptcy, and took my money anyway. I'm part of the class action lawsuit along with 100's of others that didn't receive their products and even after all these years it's still ongoing. Don't know if I'll ever see anything. They even owe SST a bunch of money to this day. I was talking with the owner of SST last year about that deal. It's a real mess, and was told at the time the current group that is working on the Legend trans hasn't paid their rent for the building they are in for months and were looking at eviction. SST tried to buy out a lot of stuff from Keisler as well as the current Legend deal, but most of it fell through. So even after all that I had hoped Legend would come around again but when I was told to put a deposit just to get on a waiting list, there was no way I was getting roped into that deal, after knowing what I knew already.
Lots of money owed to various people. Not a good deal all around and way too many details to lay out here. A lot of crooked things going on down there in Tennessee.

In a nut shell, I'd suggest people to look elsewhere and not wait on the Legend stuff.

This is exactly why I didn’t buy it when my lotto number came up. First I was blindsided with a “we have your trans ready to ship email that wanted 4000 right away. I was told two years and this came up in 4 months! Second I got to thinking if they weren’t solvent then when it does break I have a 4000 doorstop