[wreckmastr]

It's almost to quiet without Patrick............

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by mjm421

The fact is Mr. Leech is right about 90% of the time. The funny part is he kills you with your own ammo!!!

I try...

Originally Posted by dda72

90% is understatement!

the wife might disagree...LOL

Originally Posted by Half-Inch Stud

Been saving this one.. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fKjzfJ5oBLg

LOL






JOHNTA1 JUST WENT THERMONUCLEAR!

[cgeise]

First question -- when you east coast biach'ssss going to form a wagon train and come out west to race????

Second question -- this is the racing section, what are you doing here Stan ?????

and dont pick on deer hunters -- theres nothing better, except maybe elk hunting.

And

BBTTFMF

( BIG BOOBIES TO THE FRONT MOTHER *******)

[S/st 54]

Originally Posted by cgeise

First question -- when you east coast biach'ssss going to form a wagon train and come out west to race????

I think someone told them they'd fall off of a cliff or something just west of Norwalk or something like that..........

I can't think of a reason NOT to take a old Pontiac to Vegas and run it out there......That's my kinda gambling if you ask me!................ So what if it's a .05 track. It's NICE!


Are you going to the spring fling out there Curt?

[Blued and Painted]

Originally Posted by David Holmberg

One things for sure, she's not getting any duct tape.

Silence is Golden.
Duct tape is Silver.

[Badbird69]

Mike,

The thrill of going racing just to go racing has long lost it's luster for me. I was bracket racing back in the 70's when there were still five amber lights on the tree. LOL. Now, since we have gone heads-up racing, the only reason to take the car out to the track is to try to improve it's performance. Therefore, it was never my intention to bring the little motor with the CV-1 heads to Norwalk. There was some chatter about that possibility here on PY, but not from me. I made our plans clear that we would run our Gaby headed 511 at Norwalk, and if time permitted, we would try the little CV motor later in the fall. As events unfolded, none of the above happened.

My motivation for building the car was to do something that hadn't been done: Run 7's in a street legal Pontiac. We compete in a heads-up street legal class at BIR. Minimum weight is 3100 lbs. But there is NO limit on cubic inches. So we are most often up against cars with much larger engines. Even so, we are right in the thick of things. Our last race we attended in 2011, we were in the finals against a 632" nitrous Camaro. It was an awesome 7 second, side by side race ....... except for the fact that we lost by .04.

Like many here, I was drawn to Gaby by reputation. We met at Norwalk in 2011 and talked about stepping up our program (so I could beat that 632" Camaro). I sent him my junk in November 2011 and he came up with a plan that included additional head porting, new sheet metal intake, higher ratio rocker arms and Dale Cubic carburetors.

I told him I needed to have the motor on the dyno by March 2012 and in the car on the track by April 2012. He assured me that would be "no problem". I took him at his word - didn't call him, didn't email him, didn't bug him - shouldn't have to. However, March came and went without any word from Florida. So, first week in April I sent an email inquiring about my junk. That's when the dance began. There followed months of excuses, broken promises, apologies, "problem vendors", etc., etc. So I was sitting on my hands, expecting heads and intake to arrive "any day now", when in fact it was just a lie. The heads didn't arrive until late July. The intake didn't arrive until after Labor Day. So there went our 2012 season.

Now, I don't have a problem with sub-contracting work, provided there are adequate project management and quality controls in place, which there were NOT. Neither the heads or the intake were useable as delivered. The intake looked like a high school shop project gone wrong. I couldn't believe my eyes. I sent a detailed email with pictures of the multiple - and I do mean multiple - machining and fitment issues. I would be embarrassed to let a product out the door like that. Once again, he was very apologetic, took full responsibility and promised that if I sent them back, they would "drop everything" and turn them around for me. I believe he was embarrassed too, and I got the feeling that he had never actually laid eyes or hands on the heads or intake. Don't know - just speculating.

I sent them back in the beginning of October 2012. End of November, I got an email stating that the intake was fixed and they were starting on the heads. Fast forward to February 2013 - still no heads and intake. Apparently our definitions of "drop everything" are different. Somewhere in this time frame, I read on PY that wreckmastr had received his Gaby intake manifold and that it was a work of art, pretty enough to display on a coffee table. I about blew a gasket.

Sent an email inquiring about my junk. Was told everything was done (heard that one before) and they just had to cut the receiver grooves in the heads. I reminded him that those were o-ring grooves, not receiver grooves. He said they would need to get additional tooling to do o-ring grooves. I told him to just send them back as is. The heads came back in March 2013 with (you guessed it) receiver grooves cut in them. Then "they" took a hammer and center punch and pounded dimples around the insides and outsides of the receiver grooves, apparently trying to crush them tight enough to hold a stainless o-ring. I don't have to tell you how well that worked out. This is just one small example of the quality of work we received. I can't make this stuff up.

Without getting into more detail, there were still machine work issues, water issues and fitment issues. While tackling these one at a time, the weeks turned into months. Finally got it pieced together and to the dyno. This motor made 920 hp four years ago. The shortblock is unchanged - just freshened. With better heads, better intake, better carbs and higher ratio rockers, it should have picked up SOMETHING, but it was an absolute lazy pig. Our best pull was only 860 hp. In the end, we could only laugh, as it was a fitting finale to two years of frustration. I took it home, rolled it into a corner, threw a blanket over it and haven't touched it since.

So there went our 2013 season and why we didn't make Norwalk. Is it all Gaby's fault? No, but a certain percentage certainly falls his way. No one is infallible. We'll find the lost horsepower. What really pisses me off is that I can't get the last two years back. That is the worst part.

DF

[LiL Jack]

Originally Posted by cgeise

First question -- when you east coast biach'ssss going to form a wagon train and come out west to race????

Second question -- this is the racing section, what are you doing here Stan ?????

and dont pick on deer hunters -- theres nothing better, except maybe elk hunting.

And

BBTTFMF

( BIG BOOBIES TO THE FRONT MOTHER *******)

ELKHUNTINGTTFMF!

[tstevea]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Mike,

The thrill of going racing just to go racing has long lost it's luster for me. I was bracket racing back in the 70's when there were still five amber lights on the tree. LOL. Now, since we have gone heads-up racing, the only reason to take the car out to the track is to try to improve it's performance. Therefore, it was never my intention to bring the little motor with the CV-1 heads to Norwalk. There was some chatter about that possibility here on PY, but not from me. I made our plans clear that we would run our Gaby headed 511 at Norwalk, and if time permitted, we would try the little CV motor later in the fall. As events unfolded, none of the above happened.

My motivation for building the car was to do something that hadn't been done: Run 7's in a street legal Pontiac. We compete in a heads-up street legal class at BIR. Minimum weight is 3100 lbs. But there is NO limit on cubic inches. So we are most often up against cars with much larger engines. Even so, we are right in the thick of things. Our last race we attended in 2011, we were in the finals against a 632" nitrous Camaro. It was an awesome 7 second, side by side race ....... except for the fact that we lost by .04.

Like many here, I was drawn to Gaby by reputation. We met at Norwalk in 2011 and talked about stepping up our program (so I could beat that 632" Camaro). I sent him my junk in November 2011 and he came up with a plan that included additional head porting, new sheet metal intake, higher ratio rocker arms and Dale Cubic carburetors.

I told him I needed to have the motor on the dyno by March 2012 and in the car on the track by April 2012. He assured me that would be "no problem". I took him at his word - didn't call him, didn't email him, didn't bug him - shouldn't have to. However, March came and went without any word from Florida. So, first week in April I sent an email inquiring about my junk. That's when the dance began. There followed months of excuses, broken promises, apologies, "problem vendors", etc., etc. So I was sitting on my hands, expecting heads and intake to arrive "any day now", when in fact it was just a lie. The heads didn't arrive until late July. The intake didn't arrive until after Labor Day. So there went our 2012 season.

Now, I don't have a problem with sub-contracting work, provided there are adequate project management and quality controls in place, which there were NOT. Neither the heads or the intake were useable as delivered. The intake looked like a high school shop project gone wrong. I couldn't believe my eyes. I sent a detailed email with pictures of the multiple - and I do mean multiple - machining and fitment issues. I would be embarrassed to let a product out the door like that. Once again, he was very apologetic, took full responsibility and promised that if I sent them back, they would "drop everything" and turn them around for me. I believe he was embarrassed too, and I got the feeling that he had never actually laid eyes or hands on the heads or intake. Don't know - just speculating.

I sent them back in the beginning of October 2012. End of November, I got an email stating that the intake was fixed and they were starting on the heads. Fast forward to February 2013 - still no heads and intake. Apparently our definitions of "drop everything" are different. Somewhere in this time frame, I read on PY that wreckmastr had received his Gaby intake manifold and that it was a work of art, pretty enough to display on a coffee table. I about blew a gasket.

Sent an email inquiring about my junk. Was told everything was done (heard that one before) and they just had to cut the receiver grooves in the heads. I reminded him that those were o-ring grooves, not receiver grooves. He said they would need to get additional tooling to do o-ring grooves. I told him to just send them back as is. The heads came back in March 2013 with (you guessed it) receiver grooves cut in them. Then "they" took a hammer and center punch and pounded dimples around the insides and outsides of the receiver grooves, apparently trying to crush them tight enough to hold a stainless o-ring. I don't have to tell you how well that worked out. This is just one small example of the quality of work we received. I can't make this stuff up.

Without getting into more detail, there were still machine work issues, water issues and fitment issues. While tackling these one at a time, the weeks turned into months. Finally got it pieced together and to the dyno. This motor made 920 hp four years ago. The shortblock is unchanged - just freshened. With better heads, better intake, better carbs and higher ratio rockers, it should have picked up SOMETHING, but it was an absolute lazy pig. Our best pull was only 860 hp. In the end, we could only laugh, as it was a fitting finale to two years of frustration. I took it home, rolled it into a corner, threw a blanket over it and haven't touched it since.

So there went our 2013 season and why we didn't make Norwalk. Is it all Gaby's fault? No, but a certain percentage certainly falls his way. No one is infallible. We'll find the lost horsepower. What really pisses me off is that I can't get the last two years back. That is the worst part.

DF

Wow... Hope to see your car back out soon ..Awesome car

[grandville455]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

Mike,

The thrill of going racing just to go racing has long lost it's luster for me. I was bracket racing back in the 70's when there were still five amber lights on the tree. LOL. Now, since we have gone heads-up racing, the only reason to take the car out to the track is to try to improve it's performance. Therefore, it was never my intention to bring the little motor with the CV-1 heads to Norwalk. There was some chatter about that possibility here on PY, but not from me. I made our plans clear that we would run our Gaby headed 511 at Norwalk, and if time permitted, we would try the little CV motor later in the fall. As events unfolded, none of the above happened.

My motivation for building the car was to do something that hadn't been done: Run 7's in a street legal Pontiac. We compete in a heads-up street legal class at BIR. Minimum weight is 3100 lbs. But there is NO limit on cubic inches. So we are most often up against cars with much larger engines. Even so, we are right in the thick of things. Our last race we attended in 2011, we were in the finals against a 632" nitrous Camaro. It was an awesome 7 second, side by side race ....... except for the fact that we lost by .04.

Like many here, I was drawn to Gaby by reputation. We met at Norwalk in 2011 and talked about stepping up our program (so I could beat that 632" Camaro). I sent him my junk in November 2011 and he came up with a plan that included additional head porting, new sheet metal intake, higher ratio rocker arms and Dale Cubic carburetors.

I told him I needed to have the motor on the dyno by March 2012 and in the car on the track by April 2012. He assured me that would be "no problem". I took him at his word - didn't call him, didn't email him, didn't bug him - shouldn't have to. However, March came and went without any word from Florida. So, first week in April I sent an email inquiring about my junk. That's when the dance began. There followed months of excuses, broken promises, apologies, "problem vendors", etc., etc. So I was sitting on my hands, expecting heads and intake to arrive "any day now", when in fact it was just a lie. The heads didn't arrive until late July. The intake didn't arrive until after Labor Day. So there went our 2012 season.

Now, I don't have a problem with sub-contracting work, provided there are adequate project management and quality controls in place, which there were NOT. Neither the heads or the intake were useable as delivered. The intake looked like a high school shop project gone wrong. I couldn't believe my eyes. I sent a detailed email with pictures of the multiple - and I do mean multiple - machining and fitment issues. I would be embarrassed to let a product out the door like that. Once again, he was very apologetic, took full responsibility and promised that if I sent them back, they would "drop everything" and turn them around for me. I believe he was embarrassed too, and I got the feeling that he had never actually laid eyes or hands on the heads or intake. Don't know - just speculating.

I sent them back in the beginning of October 2012. End of November, I got an email stating that the intake was fixed and they were starting on the heads. Fast forward to February 2013 - still no heads and intake. Apparently our definitions of "drop everything" are different. Somewhere in this time frame, I read on PY that wreckmastr had received his Gaby intake manifold and that it was a work of art, pretty enough to display on a coffee table. I about blew a gasket.

Sent an email inquiring about my junk. Was told everything was done (heard that one before) and they just had to cut the receiver grooves in the heads. I reminded him that those were o-ring grooves, not receiver grooves. He said they would need to get additional tooling to do o-ring grooves. I told him to just send them back as is. The heads came back in March 2013 with (you guessed it) receiver grooves cut in them. Then "they" took a hammer and center punch and pounded dimples around the insides and outsides of the receiver grooves, apparently trying to crush them tight enough to hold a stainless o-ring. I don't have to tell you how well that worked out. This is just one small example of the quality of work we received. I can't make this stuff up.

Without getting into more detail, there were still machine work issues, water issues and fitment issues. While tackling these one at a time, the weeks turned into months. Finally got it pieced together and to the dyno. This motor made 920 hp four years ago. The shortblock is unchanged - just freshened. With better heads, better intake, better carbs and higher ratio rockers, it should have picked up SOMETHING, but it was an absolute lazy pig. Our best pull was only 860 hp. In the end, we could only laugh, as it was a fitting finale to two years of frustration. I took it home, rolled it into a corner, threw a blanket over it and haven't touched it since.

So there went our 2013 season and why we didn't make Norwalk. Is it all Gaby's fault? No, but a certain percentage certainly falls his way. No one is infallible. We'll find the lost horsepower. What really pisses me off is that I can't get the last two years back. That is the worst part.

DF

Man That really blows!! Sorry Dick
Just to add my Opinion ,people stick alot of MONEY into their cars these days and for anyone to bash another on their cars or what their building is just down right rude period!
Hope to see your car out this year, It truly is a work of art!

[GTO Dan]

Dick -

It is difficult to go through something like this and many times just as hard to write about it. I appreciate your candor and willingness to share this in an objective manner and simply stating the facts.

There are always two sides to any situation, but you have made your side clear. Short of the loss of time I hope, to some degree, this was or will be addressed to some level of satisfaction.

No person, business or industry is perfect, so things like this can happen even to the best customers and businesses, but it is still difficult to read and certainly endure.

Good luck and I sincerely wish you smoother sailing this year.

[mike leech]

DICK,
WELL...whewww...dam it.

I hope you get your program back on track soon. We are very similar in that this game for me is not about writing numbers on the windshield and letting off the throttle to win. Its a horsepower generation and in car application game for me.

I was the happiest guy to breakout in the Norwalk q16 last year, promise thats true.

Hopefully you can put this behind you and move on. All bitter divorces are difficult to process....just this one is unmet expectations on car parts instead of life partners. Don't know the other side or really want to hear it. Gabys been a good guy to me although not a customer of his, I'd sure think something very out of the ordinary happened here.

The sooner you let go of the bitterness the sooner YOU will be enjoying your hobby again.

So what are your predictions? What heads you gonna run? If and I say IF you run CVs and bust some azz....that'd be good for you and "COOL and the GANG"

Lets meet up at norwalk and have a cigar....I don't drink so you can have my beer for me

[J.C.you]

as we say here...the crawfish went into its hole.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by cgeise

First question -- when you east coast biach'ssss going to form a wagon train and come out west to race????

Second question -- this is the racing section, what are you doing here Stan ?????

and dont pick on deer hunters -- theres nothing better, except maybe elk hunting.

And

BBTTFMF

( BIG BOOBIES TO THE FRONT MOTHER *******)

big boobies works. was thinking more like big bucks.....2013 was a good year!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by cgeise

First question -- when you east coast biach'ssss going to form a wagon train and come out west to race????

Second question -- this is the racing section, what are you doing here Stan ?????

and dont pick on deer hunters -- theres nothing better, except maybe elk hunting.

And

BBTTFMF

( BIG BOOBIES TO THE FRONT MOTHER *******)

Excellent question.

This is the Race Section Under Pontiac Tech

When I first started posting here there was a good number of technical threads. But for the past few month there has been much less technical discussions and much more **** threads.

So I am in the process of reevaluating what if any value this section (Race) has.

Clearly the Street and Boost section still have a great variety in topics and discussion.

Stan

[johnta1]

Excellent question.

This is the Race Section Under Pontiac Tech

When I first started posting here there was a good number of technical threads. But for the past few month there has been much less technical discussions and much more **** threads.

So I am in the process of reevaluating what if any value this section (Race) has.

Clearly the Street and Boost section still have a great variety in topics and discussion.

I agree fully.

This used to be a great section, but now it's the 'Clubhouse' worse than the 'Lobby' where most of these posts belong.

Where's the 'technical' or 'race' stuff is, I don't know.
And no EHTTFMF is not race or technical.

Also thought the name calling, back stabbing, etc was not allowed.

But I guess if your an ECM fan it is OK.



I really thought when you came on this board it would really help the racers out.
Along with some of the other people that have came along also like Chad S. and others it was starting to get good.

But if we wanted a 'YB' type board we could always go there.

That is the main reason I don't go there is too much blowing and posturing and no real substance.

Guess it's time to find something else also.

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Excellent question.

This is the Race Section Under Pontiac Tech

When I first started posting here there was a good number of technical threads. But for the past few month there has been much less technical discussions and much more **** threads.

So I am in the process of reevaluating what if any value this section (Race) has.

Clearly the Street and Boost section still have a great variety in topics and discussion.

Stan

Stan,

Relax I'm not about to slam you. By technical discussions do you mean theoretical discussions of hypothesis and Ideas?

Or more like discussions on various parts,methods, and procedures to advance a particular racer in need of help or possibly us all.

Or does it look more like a couple guys discussing their Ideas and theories completely unchecked. Those theories and hypothesis are the GOLDEN rule and whomever has the best IDEA wins regardless of facts or some racers experience IN THAT VERY AREA.


THERES A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE HERE IN THE RACE SECTION.

lots of us help each other out of problems and improve each others combos. Some are only here to gain or share knowledge....thats cool too. The problems start when there is no separation between IDEAS and EXPERIENCE. THEN BACK AND FORTH. 9 times out of 10 that back and forth is someone with actual experience and more usable data asking for the IDEA to be verified with some facts.......THE SHEIT HITS THE FAN WHEN THE DANCE STARTS. Somewhere in here we need to insert the cheerleaders of products and vendors because of philosophy or emotional attachment, or detachment. Saying the IA2 sucks and the MR1 is the BEST while owning neither is just RIDICULOUS! If you examined the 2 and have an opinion fine....state it as such and move on. Same for heads.....and before either side gets all excited.....BOTH sides are evaluating each others performance. Failing to recognize the performance or lack of on either side makes you an emotional weiner. LOVE your favorite football team...hate the other guys if you want. This math and physics not an allegiance sport.

Would make for more useful and enjoyable forum if the IDEA guys would just say " why no I don't have any proof to back that up......Do you have some particular experience or useful data that you can share?" Both sides can potentially learn something here. The Idea guys can contribute as well as I'm always interested in ways to make hp or go faster with what I have...and so are others.

I won't sit idle while theories are discussed as facts. If you even have a reasonable argument for you theory OK cool I'll listen. But If guys want to feel like a big shot and say things that may cause just one person to waste their hard earned money......there are going to be folks to set the record strait. Just how it is

[mike leech]

Originally Posted by johnta1

I agree fully.

This used to be a great section, but now it's the 'Clubhouse' worse than the 'Lobby' where most of these posts belong.

Where's the 'technical' or 'race' stuff is, I don't know.
And no EHTTFMF is not race or technical.

Also thought the name calling, back stabbing, etc was not allowed.

But I guess if your an ECM fan it is OK.



I really thought when you came on this board it would really help the racers out.
Along with some of the other people that have came along also like Chad S. and others it was starting to get good.

But if we wanted a 'YB' type board we could always go there.

That is the main reason I don't go there is too much blowing and posturing and no real substance.

Guess it's time to find something else also.

JOHN,

Relax I'm not about to slam you. By technical discussions do you mean theoretical discussions of hypothesis and Ideas?

Or more like discussions on various parts,methods, and procedures to advance a particular racer in need of help or possibly us all.

Or does it look more like a couple guys discussing their Ideas and theories completely unchecked. Those theories and hypothesis are the GOLDEN rule and whomever has the best IDEA wins regardless of facts or some racers experience IN THAT VERY AREA.


THERES A WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE HERE IN THE RACE SECTION.

lots of us help each other out of problems and improve each others combos. Some are only here to gain or share knowledge....thats cool too. The problems start when there is no separation between IDEAS and EXPERIENCE. THEN BACK AND FORTH. 9 times out of 10 that back and forth is someone with actual experience and more usable data asking for the IDEA to be verified with some facts.......THE SHEIT HITS THE FAN WHEN THE DANCE STARTS. Somewhere in here we need to insert the cheerleaders of products and vendors because of philosophy or emotional attachment, or detachment. Saying the IA2 sucks and the MR1 is the BEST while owning neither is just RIDICULOUS! If you examined the 2 and have an opinion fine....state it as such and move on. Same for heads.....and before either side gets all excited.....BOTH sides are evaluating each others performance. Failing to recognize the performance or lack of on either side makes you an emotional weiner. LOVE your favorite football team...hate the other guys if you want. This math and physics not an allegiance sport.

Would make for more useful and enjoyable forum if the IDEA guys would just say " why no I don't have any proof to back that up......Do you have some particular experience or useful data that you can share?" Both sides can potentially learn something here. The Idea guys can contribute as well as I'm always interested in ways to make hp or go faster with what I have...and so are others.

I won't sit idle while theories are discussed as facts. If you even have a reasonable argument for you theory OK cool I'll listen. But If guys want to feel like a big shot and say things that may cause just one person to waste their hard earned money......there are going to be folks to set the record strait. Just how it is

[wreckmastr]

ECMTTFMF

[David Holmberg]

Stan, its called "Cabin fever" and has happened every winter since PY went online. (And isn't limited to PY by any means)

As we get closer to spring people start to reveal what their winter projects were and improvements that were made.

This is a member driven board, if the members want more tech then ask more questions. There are tech questions being posted, but most members are snowed out of their garage.

[John Langer]

Originally Posted by Badbird69

This motor made 920 hp four years ago. The shortblock is unchanged - just freshened. With better heads, better intake, better carbs and higher ratio rockers, it should have picked up SOMETHING, but it was an absolute lazy pig. Our best pull was only 860 hp. In the end, we could only laugh, as it was a fitting finale to two years of frustration. I took it home, rolled it into a corner, threw a blanket over it and haven't touched it since.

DF

Was the 920 with eheads and 860 w cv heads or both w cv heads. Not starting **** just asking for clarification.