[mikeb]

I quit counting when mine went way over $20k and 3 years. And I did everything except rebuild the 4 speed and the rear end - bodywork, paint, mechanicals, interior.

What people are saying about multiplying an expected cost by a 4x (or whatever) will at least give you an idea if the project is going to be in your price range. The time factor will be influenced by your own efforts; if you grow tired of working on the car (and you will) or if you try to part time it the project will just sit there and mock you. I know that there were many days where the last thing I wanted to do was more bodywork but I went out and did it anyway, and the car eventually got done. For me the loss of interest was the hardest thing I had to deal with over the 4 years or so that it took me to finish the car.

[70oldgoat]

Quote:

"take a complete tired old car, minimal but usual rust, and lets say all the OEM parts are there. So no searching out any hard to find parts. What would it typically take to bring it to a nice show/ number 2 car that gets driven on nice days.

Lets say the car is something rare or sentimental to justify the expense."



This car is a frame off, rebuild restoration.

As of last Friday, I'm at 444.5 hours of labor and the car is not ready to paint, yet. Will probably take another 80 hours of body work.

Body shop estimate on the paint and other supplies after body work labor is $2,000. I think it's called a "three stage" paint application; three coats of base color, three coats of a mid coat and two coats of clear. Car should be painted by first of the year.

Then, it has to be put back together.

I am not doing the majority of the work. I don't have neither; (1) the skill, (2) tools, nor (3) the physical or mental stamina needed. I was fortunate to have found a local shop. The owner and I became friends and he lets me watch as they work on the car. I'm down there nearly every day that the car is being worked on.

Money spent so far including cost of the car, $48,627.32 which includes:

Cost of car.
Engine rebuild.
New exhaust system.
New fuel lines.
New brake system (front disc, rear drum)
New interior including dash.
New A/C system.
Chrome refinished.
Labor to date.

Nearly all parts have been bought and are on the shelf.

When it's finished, everything on the car will be new or rebuilt.

I expect this car to end up costing somewhere North of $70 grand when it's all said and done.

Market value? It is not a rare car. It is not numbers matching. It's a 455, four speed car. I'm not in the business, but, on a good day, maybe a third of the cost?

I am an "end user". I don't intend to sell the car. We will drive it, enjoy it and at the of the game it will probably go to one of the boys.

Money wise? Better off buying one already done, but I chose to go this route for other than money reasons.

This is my passion.

Today is Veterans Day. Thanks to all of you who have or are serving our country.

[limejudge69]

'More than you will admit to your wife'

[GOAT WHORE]

Originally Posted by The Boss

It all depends upon how far you want to go. I had about 12k into this one when I sold it & that included buying the car.

Now your just showin off Boss
Not average sale price to begin with for sure.

[bird72]

I see no change in the "buy one cheaper than build one" situation. The economics will always be to buy a finished one. The thing about doing your own is EVEYTHING is how you want it (hopefully). Even buying a "done" one and changing / fixing stuff, as long as the core work done is good work, will be vastly cheaper than building one.

My 72 I no longer have:
had more in than I could buy one for
needed 15K more at least
and I would have had a pieced togethor rust repair car

I will never buy a project one again, with my available cash and age.

The other thing I see is guys here buying selling buying selling, and doing the equity, investment, smart purchase angles. They are not building cars, and they all have top notch rare cars.

but to those talented resto people with determination, I admire, because you are doing the ultimate dream, and to show something YOU built vs bought, well......

[PMD1969]

Originally Posted by limejudge69

'More than you will admit to your wife'

lol how true

[fyrffytr1]

One other reason I decided to restore one rather than buy a finished one was economics. I couldn't afford to buy one already done. I paid as I went on my restoration and even traded labor for some of the body and paint work. It will be 6 years this Thanksgiving since I bought this car. I can honestly say that I don't owe a dime on it.

[zeebo]

....three times the initial projected cost layout. remember, when you are dealing with someone else, you run into all kinds of issues, wrong parts shipped to you, stuff not fixed correctly...everything..plus your time and expenses involved running around getting everything done. not to mention time off work just to be home to sign for a package..it all adds up...waayyy better to buy a car already done.

[Kurt Zimmerman]

"... four busted knuckles, three sick days, two fluid spills, and a trip to emergency."

(sung to the tune of 'twelve days of Christmas')

Kurt

[geeteeohguy]

Agreed, a done car will always be cheaper. Helped a friend do a frame off restoration on his first car, a '67 GTO he bought in '77. California car, no rust anywhere, no dents, nothing missing. Perfect floors, perfect trunk. Never hit, all original body panels. This was a running, driving car when we started, just a bit tired. We did everything ourselves, except the paint, which he got a screaming deal on. (Cameo Ivory). The cost of re-chroming, new interior, trans overhaul, rear end overhaul, wiring, etc. was right at 27,000 dollars, and we didn't overhaul the engine, just resealed it and cleaned it up. He paid $1200 for the car in '77. The car is a strong #2 car and drives like new. If he had paid labor, the cost would have been about 75k. What he ended up with, for his 27k was a very nice GTO worth about.....25-30k.

[eaglesan13]

Did it have green interior?

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Agreed, a done car will always be cheaper. Helped a friend do a frame off restoration on his first car, a '67 GTO he bought in '77. California car, no rust anywhere, no dents, nothing missing. Perfect floors, perfect trunk. Never hit, all original body panels. This was a running, driving car when we started, just a bit tired. We did everything ourselves, except the paint, which he got a screaming deal on. (Cameo Ivory). The cost of re-chroming, new interior, trans overhaul, rear end overhaul, wiring, etc. was right at 27,000 dollars, and we didn't overhaul the engine, just resealed it and cleaned it up. He paid $1200 for the car in '77. The car is a strong #2 car and drives like new. If he had paid labor, the cost would have been about 75k. What he ended up with, for his 27k was a very nice GTO worth about.....25-30k.

[carcrazy]

I have about 30k in my 67 GTO and I'm not done (but getting close). I will probably have about 35k in it at completion. I started with a very rusted car-just about every panel. I've done 100% of the work with the exception of the 600 hp engine which was done by CVMS. Mine will be a mid 2 when done-never any intention to make it a show car.

[ho428]

...less than the price of a divorce.

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by limejudge69

'More than you will admit to your wife'

The Camaro is my wife's car. She knows how much went into it - no need to hide it as she wanted what she wanted...

[brians]

How much work and time do you want to put into it?
What equipment do you have to start with?
What end result do you want?


I had a similar thought a few times. About 10 years ago I kind of challenged myself to it.

My own rules:
Restore a desirable muscle car to a safe, nice driver condition.
Could win a local popular judged show, but not intended for a points judged show.


Found a 70 W31 4sp. up in Michigan through Hemmings. Needed everything, but was complete including original engine, trans, rear.

I did everything to save money and kept track of everything. Bought parts cars, went junk yarding, traded parts, sold off extra, made some parts, and used everything I could. Even the fenders from one of the parts cars were used as quarter sections.

Did everything myself except where I needed extra hands from friends. Body came off the frame just high enough to replace lines and bushings so underneath was nice but not points judged standard.

Total out of pocket including car and travel - $4000 (granted this was 10 years ago)
That is the total out of pocket money I spend - looking at it if I never touched the car or parts.
Made money off some parts and the parts cars, so that went into offsetting cost. Probably took twice as long as the restoration should and many, many, many hours but it is something I enjoyed. (And also before kids)


I am trying it again right now with a 68 RA1 FB hardtop. Am shooting for a Bronze level car with a total out of pocket of $11K.




Now a judged gold level car – Have enough in the one 69 GTO to purchase a small house.

[crazecars]

Every time I buy a part, if it doesn't have a lifetime warranty I simply throw away the receipt. Never tracked expenses and never will.

Cuz frankly I don't wanna know how much it costs to restore my car, cuz it doesn't matter one bit. I will speculate I have about the same amount of money in my car as what it's worth right now...which was NOT easy. And that's assuming my 1000-ish hours are worth exactly ZERO dollars per hour...

As an alternative you could buy a new car...$30K...watch it depreciate to $15K after a few years. And keep depreciating...

If you don't love the hobby of spending 1000-ish hours frittering away your life on this stuff, don't start. If you intend to just drive and enjoy it, buy a done car...if there even is such a thing. Cuz if you intend to restore it first? You won't be driving & enjoying it for a LONG, LONG time...

[The Boss]

Originally Posted by ho428

...less than the price of a divorce.

But will never be worth as much...

[Formulabruce]

Body shop is BAD value if you have them do ALL the work, and it will take YEARS. Fast Eddie and others can vouch for that.
Do ALL your own disassembling, and parts organization, and Assembly after paint
Body shops HATE putting in windows putting on bumpers...etc...
Done this way its about 20K for a #2 Done in 2 years with YOU being the project manager.
A real Pontiac restoration shop can do this the same way with you doing the parts and assembly, or they can do it ALL, and do it right... costs 30-40K for a #1 keeping things stock. Done in 1 year
Friends and members on here can and do help with motivation, which deserve a BIG "unsung hero" thank you !!
IF you drive and enjoy your car, you have received some "VALUE" out of it..
Git~R~Done !!

[400 4spd.]

I've restored lots of cars for lots of people. Probably built some you would not believe. My advise is start with the most rust-free example you can afford. I would take a dented, incomplete rust-fee car any day over a complete rust bucket.

[71GP76TA]

I paid $1,100 for this car in 2007. I ended up being in it roughly $4,000. I started with a great running low mile car that was weathered. I had the car painted....new vinyl top....had seats redone....car had fairly new dual exhaust when I bought it....I put a couple of Flowmasters on it... The wheels and tires were on my '70 T/A when I bought it as I ended up putting the correct JW's on it. They were Wheel Vintique repops with new T/A's. Point being.....start with the best car you can....even if it isn't the most desirable to some... Last pic is when I bought it.