[ponchjoe]

Hey guys,
I will be installing the Best rope seal in my build and I was wondering what the DIYers are using to pack it into the block and cap? I found a Kent Moore J7588 but it’s like $250.
What are you using, just a 3” piece of pipe?
Thanks

[mgarblik]

A 3" piece of pipe is probably a little too big? I have the plastic factory tool but I also use a 36MM Axle nut socket too. Really, anything like that will do a good job. Lubricate the tool, pipe with some oil so the seal doesn't stick to it. Also, it's very important to have a clean cut on the ends of the seal. I use a NEW single edge razor blade to get a clean, flat cut on the ends of the seal. I put a very small dot of RTV on the ends of the seal to bond the ends together.

[steve25]

3” pipe or a really big socket, or a oiled up rolling pin I have even used and works great.

Don’t let your wife see that!
The best rope seal unfortunately is not made any more.
The original type was Asbestos, the new ones are fiberglass and they ware that area of the crank they ride on a lot faster then the original and to me do not seal as well.

To me they do not pack in as nice either!

I would use the one piece type seal if I were you.

Also for the pan gasket back there use the cork seal and some gasket maker .

If you do use the rope seal let the sealer you put on each end once you cut it set up full overnight before you spin the crank, and be sure to have some oil on the crank so that if any sealer touches the crank it does not stick.

[tom s]

The Best gasket company rope seal is pretty darn good.Have had good luck with them.I do prefer the BOP 1 pc seal.Tom

[ponchjoe]

Thanks for the input Gents!

[Sirrotica]

The best rope seal unfortunately is not made any more.

He's referring to the "BEST" brand graphite woven rope rear main seals, not which type of material the seal is made from. The "BEST" seals are still being made and sold currently, for Pontiac and other engines which used the older design rope seals.

Link to "BEST" brand graphite woven rear main seal, which has shown to be as effective as the old asbestos rope seals which the feds outlawed years ago. Much better results than the fiberglass seals that replaced the asbestos rope.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27678390213...4f286bc67173dd

Any rear seal can leak if not installed correctly. Rope, 1 piece neoprene, 2 piece neoprene. You have to take time when doing it, and follow the directions. Even if you follow directions to the Tee, they can still leak, been there done that.

Personally I've done dozens of Pontiac as well as other brands of rope seals. The only way I've never had any luck doing the procedure, is packing the old upper half in the block with the crank still in the block, then inserting short pieces on both ends. Every time I've tried this procedure in chassis from under the car, they have leaked. GM has this procedure in their shop manuals, but I've never done one this way and had it seal.

Pull the engine and replace both halves by lifting the crank out of the block if you want any chance at all of sealing the rope style seals. I've had zero success with repacking in chassis repairs. I've also tried Chinese fingers to pull a new rope seal into the upper block groove, waste of time, never sealed properly because you're actually stretching the seal, instead of packing it more densely.

I've never had the Kent Moore packing tool to use, I use whatever I can find that is the approximate same diameter as the seal surface on the crank to pack it into the cap. I usually pack both halves separately into the main seal cap, then transfer one to the block groove. I trim the ends of the upper seal after it's bedded into the block.

The main bearing journal isn't the same size as the section that the seal rides on. The seal surface behind the slinger ring is maybe 1/8-1/4 inch larger than the bearing surface is.

I.E. a 3 inch main journal will have a seal surface 3 1/8 - 3 1/4 inches in diameter.

I've also used an old junk crankshaft and driven the cap onto the old crank to form them into the groove, but of course you need a spare junk core to be able to do that.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do, because Pontiac rear mains can be very challenging to seal completely dry. Most garages won't even give you an estimate on resealing one, and if they do, they may not warranty the labor if it leaks. They don't want the liability, and grief that goes along with it. Doing the job the second time for free isn't a good business model for profit making.

[PontiacHO]

Recall Buick V6 rope seals under warranty. What a pain. Warranty would only authorize and pay to replace the seal with engine in frame. Run a screw in the top half and pray it will start coming out. I had a “Chinese finger” type install kit with a cable and handle to pull the top half in and around the crankshaft then pack the ends with pieces of the old rope seal. Used a socket to pack the lower half in the main bearing cap. RTV where the ends meet and hope it doesn’t leak until after warranty. Glad there is a neoprene option for Pontiacs now.

[lust4speed]

For those of us that were experienced installing the old asbestos rope seal, the Best Teflon/Graphite seal requires a different technique.

After the Best Teflon/Graphite seal was brought to market, I installed the Best rope seal like I did the old seals, and I was rewarded with having the Teflon seal melt and drip down on the driveway during the initial running on the break-in stand. Now I lay the seal in the groove and make sure I don't pack or try and compress more length in the groove. I have great results simply setting the rope in the groove and rolling it down in place without any additional loading. I switched over to the one-piece BOP Viton seal but we have an engine that was line bored way out of spec and the one-piece didn't work out. This Teflon/Graphite install was only a few days ago and was the first in a couple of years I have done with the Best rope seal.

A few other things is the razor knife included with the kit cut the seal like going through warm butter. With the asbestos rope we could go through a half dozen razor blades and still have frayed ends when done. Best includes a little spacer that makes the cut maybe .010" above the block and cap surfaces, and they say to not apply any sealant on the rope ends and only to the cap/block mating surfaces. They also request the rope be lubricated with assembly lube or engine oil but not grease. I need to call Wade and see what problems they have found when grease is used. After getting accustomed to negligible crank drag with the BOP Viton seal, going back to this rope seal reminded me of the extra drag encountered with the rope.

This was also the first time I installed the 1/16" diameter roll pin in the cap to limit seal movement as the directions wanted. Seems strange but guess they wouldn't include the pin in the kit if it didn't help limit movement.

[PAUL K]

Biggest issue with a BEST RMS is they have a tendency to melt and clog the oil pump pick (yet amazingly still not leak). We tend not to use them on engines that use a pick up without a bypass incase the screen becomes clogged.... Never "pack" the ends like you should with the OEM seals.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

For those of us that were experienced installing the old asbestos rope seal, the Best Teflon/Graphite seal requires a different technique.

After getting accustomed to negligible crank drag with the BOP Viton seal, going back to this rope seal reminded me of the extra drag encountered with the rope.

This was also the first time I installed the 1/16" diameter roll pin in the cap to limit seal movement as the directions wanted. Seems strange but guess they wouldn't include the pin in the kit if it didn't help limit movement.

The excessive drag goes away within the first few minutes of start up. Unfortunately the seal shreds as the engine runs and the debris sometimes finds its way to the pick up. The situation is aggravated with an engine that uses a vacuum pump.

The pin isn't needed with a block that has the factory anti-rotation holes.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

The pin isn't needed with a block that has the factory anti-rotation holes.

NOW you tell me.

Previous kits I've used didn't have the pin and didn't seem like it was needed. Well, the pin is in place and probably won't do any harm. Their included pin was soft and a bear to set and I ended up using a standard roll pin I had around that went right in without a problem.

I only use the Best rope seal under unusual situations and use the BOP one-piece for normal installations. This engine was the result of a blotched main cap installation at a highly recommended SoCal machine shop for the billet main caps. Their line bore brought the crank .027" closer to the cam which has caused several problems including the rear seal alignment. We got the one-piece to seal but it took sanding down to the steel inner structure of the seal on one side to align it with the crank. It was starting to leak after a year so decided to go with the rope seal on the freshen. Time will tell whether we made the right decision going with the rope.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

For those of us that were experienced installing the old asbestos rope seal, the Best Teflon/Graphite seal requires a different technique.

After the Best Teflon/Graphite seal was brought to market, I installed the Best rope seal like I did the old seals, and I was rewarded with having the Teflon seal melt and drip down on the driveway during the initial running on the break-in stand. Now I lay the seal in the groove and make sure I don't pack or try and compress more length in the groove. I have great results simply setting the rope in the groove and rolling it down in place without any additional loading. I switched over to the one-piece BOP Viton seal but we have an engine that was line bored way out of spec and the one-piece didn't work out. This Teflon/Graphite install was only a few days ago and was the first in a couple of years I have done with the Best rope seal.

A few other things is the razor knife included with the kit cut the seal like going through warm butter. With the asbestos rope we could go through a half dozen razor blades and still have frayed ends when done. Best includes a little spacer that makes the cut maybe .010" above the block and cap surfaces, and they say to not apply any sealant on the rope ends and only to the cap/block mating surfaces. They also request the rope be lubricated with assembly lube or engine oil but not grease. I need to call Wade and see what problems they have found when grease is used. After getting accustomed to negligible crank drag with the BOP Viton seal, going back to this rope seal reminded me of the extra drag encountered with the rope.

This was also the first time I installed the 1/16" diameter roll pin in the cap to limit seal movement as the directions wanted. Seems strange but guess they wouldn't include the pin in the kit if it didn't help limit movement.

I used the BOP one piece on my 461. It has splayed caps so it was align bored. I did have to do a fair amount of sanding on the seal and I seen a little bit of the steel, but no leaks. And I used a red lithium grease on the seal and journal.
But my align bore was so good you could see where 2 of the mains barely got fuzzed. It was so good I am running a std timing chain. I bought a .004 short Rollermaster and had a bunch of different timing sets around. And a old Morse set I had for 20 years was a tad tighter than the .004 Rollermaster, so I ran it.
Wade was a big help in getting the one piece right after a screwed up the first one. I ground the ends, don't do that !
I had a Best Seal too but after I heard the shredding stories its still in my toolbox. Good thing too because I made my own custom pickup/pump with a much larger diameter tube. The end of the pickup is from a Ford Mod engine and its cone shaped and a do not think it has a by pass in case it gets plugged.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by lust4speed

NOW you tell me.

Previous kits I've used didn't have the pin and didn't seem like it was needed. Well, the pin is in place and probably won't do any harm. Their included pin was soft and a bear to set and I ended up using a standard roll pin I had around that went right in without a problem.

I only use the Best rope seal under unusual situations and use the BOP one-piece for normal installations. This engine was the result of a blotched main cap installation at a highly recommended SoCal machine shop for the billet main caps. Their line bore brought the crank .027" closer to the cam which has caused several problems including the rear seal alignment. We got the one-piece to seal but it took sanding down to the steel inner structure of the seal on one side to align it with the crank. It was starting to leak after a year so decided to go with the rope seal on the freshen. Time will tell whether we made the right decision going with the rope.

Interesting, I think it'll be fine. By chance is the the block that Jerry screwed up?

[Verdoro 68]

I know of installation errors with the Best seal all too well. IIRC, I packed it in place tightly with a big socket like you would an old school rope seal. So like Mick says, maybe don't do that.

Third time was the charm with the a BOP one piece.

Failure #1: Seal rotated in the groove and bunched up


Failure #2: Melted and made a big mess

[ponchjoe]

Whoa. My 428 crank was turned down to 3” so the serrations are gone. Do these play a factor in winding these up?

[Verdoro 68]

More than likely I just packed the seal wrong and/or compressed it too much, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the serrations didn’t help the situation. I had them polished down before I installed the BOP seal. Should be fine with a factory crank. The serrations are fewer and way less pronounced.

[lust4speed]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

...By chance is the the block that Jerry screwed up?

Shop in question was QMP Performance in Chatsworth, CA. Frustrating that we went to a shop over 100 miles away because of a shining recommendation only to end up getting screwed. When I got the block back the Program main caps wobbled because no one at the shop noticed that the block surface wasn't flat. If you snugged up driver side bolts first the clearance read different than if starting with the passenger side because of the slant. Back to a local machine shop for that fix. I know that QMP has fantastic state of the art equipment but apparently didn't have qualified personnel to get the job done properly. That was a few years ago and maybe things there have improved?

[Formulas]

Originally Posted by ponchjoe

Whoa. My 428 crank was turned down to 3” so the serrations are gone. Do these play a factor in winding these up?

3"in turn down ... so whats the method of addressing the thrust bearing issue?