[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 67Lemons

I don’t know that these heads or other aluminum heads really affect the used market at all. There’s two types of sellers I see in my neck of the woods, the first & best seller (IMO) is the guys who’ve accumulated all these parts over the years & sell them at a reasonable price. AKA know how to price items as cores as necessary or charge a fair value for quality used parts, these guys are aging out & not generally in tune with the current market.

The other kind of seller that I see is the folks who think every Pontiac part was on a “Ram Air Judge Big Block” & ask absolutely outrageous pricing for these clapped out core units, these guys aren’t obviously in tune with the market either or they would price accordingly (again a new aluminum head offering won’t change their pricing strategy) Ever look at asking price of Pontiac Tri Power units? Typically called “trips or 6 packs” by sellers asking insane money for units missing everything & needing full rebuilds…. Again since they were on a “GTO” they are priced more than gold. The large segment of loyalists in this hobby are aging out fast & replaced by fantasy auction house flipper folks who think that what they have is super special because they saw it on a TV show, it’s sad but that’s the reality.

EDIT: The folks on this forum & other forums I frequent are the anomaly to the above rant

Thing is, I don't see that stuff selling. At the end of the day it's still sitting there. Give it enough time and we'll see a shift in pricing.
Where I'm at out here in the south west it's primarily Chevy country anyway. They can't ask silly prices for pontiac stuff here, it just won't move, and the people looking know what they are looking for.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Thing is, I don't see that stuff selling. At the end of the day it's still sitting there. Give it enough time and we'll see a shift in pricing.
Where I'm at out here in the south west it's primarily Chevy country anyway. They can't ask silly prices for pontiac stuff here, it just won't move, and the people looking know what they are looking for.

That’s a valid point, up here in the Northeast there’s a pretty strong Pontiac community so while there’s Chevy stuff everywhere there’s also a decent amount of Pontiac stuff as well.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by Dragncar

Well, if they are priced "less" than the Edelbrock heads, which they should be as Eddy has been charging us extra for decades then these will sell. A lot IMO.
Maybe they will be priced around the same, small batch stuff ?
But it is so nice to see this. If they can really go 300cfm as cast, more than a E head, look stock, we have a winner !
Hope they have more materiel in the right places so someone can wide port them. Maybe get some without the pushrod holes drilled.
I see no shortage in Pontiac guys wanting to buy heads like these.
He will sell far more of these than RAV heads.
Thanks Don.

According to the live stream last night his goal is to have these priced slightly above the E-heads but he’s going to be using better parts to build them. I don’t want to quote prices because he asked not to quote his pricing but it sound like these will hopefully be in the $3000ish range but he’s was upfront to say that costs have risen substantially over the last 5 years since he came up with the idea.

[rolling money pits]

Anyone know if these heads will keep the same valve spacing as factory, thus being able to use factory guide plates? I can’t remember if I read about that, or if valves are bigger.

[Gator67]

I bought these from Frank a few years ago to go with the aluminum 535 in my 70 Formula. Obviously not intended to fool anyone, I just think they look more at home in the engine bay relative to as cast RPMs. Around the same time he did some 93s for a mutual friend with a 66 GTO. Not sure how many sets of these tiger cub heads allpontiac sold with this appearance option or even if they still do it.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by Gator67

I bought these from Frank a few years ago to go with the aluminum 535 in my 70 Formula. Obviously not intended to fool anyone, I just think they look more at home in the engine bay relative to as cast RPMs. Around the same time he did some 93s for a mutual friend with a 66 GTO. Not sure how many sets of these tiger cub heads allpontiac sold with this appearance option or even if they still do it.

Those look great. Proof that "stealth" heads have been an option for a while..... Knowing Frank I'm guessing those heads flow a bit more than 320.

[67Lemons]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

Anyone know if these heads will keep the same valve spacing as factory, thus being able to use factory guide plates? I can’t remember if I read about that, or if valves are bigger.

I’m not sure about the valve spacing but he did state last night that he will be making & including guide plates in his pricing of the complete heads.

[JLMounce]

Podcast mentioned that the valve centerlines were moved. I kind of doubt the factory guide plates would work.

Don's position seemed to be that he wanted to sell these heads as a complete package, which would include guide plates.

[rolling money pits]

Thanks…

Reading about other heads and the associated guideplate machinations, fiddling, welding, etc., it’s nice to see it seems he’s making that end an easy out.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by 67Lemons

That’s a valid point, up here in the Northeast there’s a pretty strong Pontiac community so while there’s Chevy stuff everywhere there’s also a decent amount of Pontiac stuff as well.

Yeah when I lived in Ohio Pontiac stuff was plentiful. Even then it was getting expensive. Between Dad and I we bought up several sets of ram air heads over the years.
Here in Arizona there is a definite decline for Pontiac stuff in comparison. Not that I need anything but the trends are interesting.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by rolling money pits

Thanks…

Reading about other heads and the associated guideplate machinations, fiddling, welding, etc., it’s nice to see it seems he’s making that end an easy out.

These will be a ready to bolt on deal. The rocker pedestal stands are quite a bit different a quite a bit beefier, so having guide plates for the application is almost a must.

Don mentioned these would come with higher quality items than what you see from Edelbrock as an example. Better springs, valves, locks etc. He specifically mentioned 10 degree locks vs 7 degree from Edelbrock, will include spring locators vs shims and will have install heights at 1.8" They should be nice pieces.

Originally Posted by Formulajones

Yeah when I lived in Ohio Pontiac stuff was plentiful. Even then it was getting expensive. Between Dad and I we bought up several sets of ram air heads over the years.
Here in Arizona there is a definite decline for Pontiac stuff in comparison. Not that I need anything but the trends are interesting.

It is interesting that the big Pontiac events are out east. The big LS events are out west.

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by Gator67

I bought these from Frank a few years ago to go with the aluminum 535 in my 70 Formula. Obviously not intended to fool anyone, I just think they look more at home in the engine bay relative to as cast RPMs. Around the same time he did some 93s for a mutual friend with a 66 GTO. Not sure how many sets of these tiger cub heads allpontiac sold wi upth this appearance option or even if they still do it.

I had talked to Frank about that but it's been quite a while. At that time he was having a problem finding a foundry in the states to cast his stuff including blocks.
I'll start seeing him again soon as the weather cools off so I'll bring up the subject again and find out if the situation has improved and if the stealth option is still available

[Formulajones]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

These will be a ready to bolt on deal. The rocker pedestal stands are quite a bit different a quite a bit beefier, so having guide plates for the application is almost a must.

Don mentioned these would come with higher quality items than what you see from Edelbrock as an example. Better springs, valves, locks etc. He specifically mentioned 10 degree locks vs 7 degree from Edelbrock, will include spring locators vs shims and will have install heights at 1.8" They should be nice pieces.



It is interesting that the big Pontiac events are out east. The big LS events are out west.

Yeah out here the events are more conglomerated. It's rare to have a specific brand event but they do occasionally.
Usually in Vegas things like moper nats, super Chevy, LS fest etc ....
Steve tried a Pontiac specific event and did it for years but it never really was as big as other events. Just not enough Pontiac support out here. It's primarily Chevy country which is fine with me as I enjoy those too.

[jhein]

To me, this is a no brainer. I know there are still a lot of unknowns but the Youtube video that he made shed a lot of light. If these heads were available when I did my motor, that's what I would have used, Even if they had the same performance as Edelbrock or KRE out of the box, they still win based on looks alone. If the performance is better then it's just not even close.

My only worry would be that it the Pontiac community started using these instead of Edelbrock or KRE, then maybe those would eventually die leaving us with only one source for aluminum heads. Which could be fine, unless or until something happens and these disappear too.

[Skip Fix]

The Mopar guys have a stock looking aluminum head-even tested on Engine Masters I think against some others. Friend has a set on his 500 inch "383".

[slowbird]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

Podcast mentioned that the valve centerlines were moved. I kind of doubt the factory guide plates would work.

Don's position seemed to be that he wanted to sell these heads as a complete package, which would include guide plates.

I'm curious if he moved the valves and it was stated he plans to use 2.19 1.72 valves, what are the odds the heads will work with existing pistons/short blocks. Sounds like they'll need dedicated pistons.

[PAUL K]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I'm curious if he moved the valves and it was stated he plans to use 2.19 1.72 valves, what are the odds the heads will work with existing pistons/short blocks. Sounds like they'll need dedicated pistons.

Oops!

[b-man]

Originally Posted by PAUL K

Oops!

Big oops if that’s truly the case.

[JLMounce]

Originally Posted by slowbird

I'm curious if he moved the valves and it was stated he plans to use 2.19 1.72 valves, what are the odds the heads will work with existing pistons/short blocks. Sounds like they'll need dedicated pistons.

The link to the podcast is up, it’s good, go watch/listen.

He stated the intake was moved towards the center by around .080 and the exhaust moved towards the chamber edge by about .030. That was his best recollection.

He also claimed the heads will work on a 350 block as long as the chamfers are in place.

But seriously take the hour and 15 minutes to watch the podcast instead of making assumptions based on 3rd hand knowledge of people like myself.

[MatthewKlein]

Originally Posted by JLMounce

The link to the podcast is up, it’s good, go watch/listen.

Is it in this thread? Or could you please post it here