#21  
Old 04-23-2021, 08:58 PM
grandam1979 grandam1979 is offline
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This is a cam I have on the shelf very close to yours,
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  #22  
Old 04-23-2021, 10:13 PM
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I wonder if there are Bullet lobes that resemble the OF lobes but offer more lobe lift?

  #23  
Old 04-24-2021, 09:36 AM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Here is a Bullet hydraulic roller lobe that is the same as the Old Faithful but with more lift....

HR288/390
288
236
160
.3900

Us it on the intake side. Then pick a exhaust lobe that suits the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the specific cylinder heads in use and/or the cars exhaust system in use, be it 4,6,8 additional degrees duration, or none..
Then it could be ground with any lobe separation desired. Now the question would be.... do they have on hand blank billet cam cores.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm
Ask for Tim Goolsby


.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-24-2021 at 09:42 AM.
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  #24  
Old 04-24-2021, 11:23 AM
ta man ta man is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Navarro View Post
I think I have the 1st version of "old faithful". back in 2008, Using it with Dave's 290cfm CNC ported Kaufman's.
Didn't know it's had other variations through the years.
I'm positive Dave has always sold the same Old Faithful cam and the new OF 2.0.

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466 Mike Voycey shortblock, 310cfm SD KRE heads, SD "OF 2.0 cam", torker 2
373 gears 3200 Continental Convertor
best et 10.679/127.5/1.533 60ft
308 gears best et 10.76/125.64/1.5471
  #25  
Old 04-24-2021, 05:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69GP455 View Post
The lobes are 3316/3317, though the cam card shows slightly altered advertised of 287 293 vs. comps lobe catalog of 288 294. It is effectively a XR288HR
For lobe 3316 I have 287.9 @ .006

For 3317
I have 293.5 @ .006
.050 is 241.8

  #26  
Old 04-24-2021, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
Here is a Bullet hydraulic roller lobe that is the same as the Old Faithful but with more lift....

HR288/390
288
236
160
.3900

Us it on the intake side. Then pick a exhaust lobe that suits the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the specific cylinder heads in use and/or the cars exhaust system in use, be it 4,6,8 additional degrees duration, or none..
Then it could be ground with any lobe separation desired. Now the question would be.... do they have on hand blank billet cam cores.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm
Ask for Tim Goolsby


.
Steve,
When you go with more lift some numbers have to change. Comp Cams show the 3316 to be 157 @ .200". But they also have the 3196 which is shown as 288 236 162 .390

Stan

PS This is a graph of my simulation of each lobe and what the difference in lobe lift would look like. Mike / Pastry Chef maybe can post a better graph
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Last edited by Stan Weiss; 04-24-2021 at 06:38 PM.
  #27  
Old 04-24-2021, 06:58 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Stan, the lobe I mentioned in post #23 was in response to this, "I wonder if there are Bullet lobes that resemble the OF lobes but offer more lobe lift?"

The original Old Faithful cam sold by Dave Bisschop uses Comp lobe 3122B on the intake.

That 3122 lobe:
289
236
160
.3800" lobe lift

The Bullet lobe is the same but with .3900" lobe lift.

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-24-2021 at 07:24 PM.
  #28  
Old 04-24-2021, 07:22 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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If one wanted something similar to 236 degrees intake duration but more valve lift for modern cylinder head ports....

Comp QXI hydraulic roller lobes:

Lobe number 13450
287
235
156
.3930"

Lobe number 13451
289
237
158
.3970"


.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #29  
Old 04-24-2021, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
Stan, the lobe I mentioned in post #23 was in response to this, "I wonder if there are Bullet lobes that resemble the OF lobes but offer more lobe lift?"

The original Old Faithful cam sold by Dave Bisschop uses Comp lobe 3122B on the intake.

That 3122 lobe:
289
236
160
.3800" lobe lift

The Bullet lobe is the same but with .3900" lobe lift.

.
Steve,
Sorry compared the 3196 to the wrong lobe. But didn't SD have a version of the cam with the 3196 lobe also?

Stan

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Last edited by Stan Weiss; 04-24-2021 at 07:41 PM.
  #30  
Old 04-24-2021, 08:03 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Stan, apparently Dave Bisschop has a revised version of the Old Faithful hydraulic roller cam known as OF2.0 as mentioned here by ta man.

That specific cam is shipped without a cam card and with limited specifications provided to the customer. But as expected information has reached the internet and has been posted. I believe it uses Comp XE lobe 3196B on the intake and Comp Magnum High Lift lobe 3123B on the exhaust. As usual the cam is custom ground with a 112 lobe separation.

Due take note as with all Comp lobes ordered with a "B" suffix code the actual numbers can, but not always, vary slightly from the listings in the Comp catalog. The .050" duration remains the same but the .006" duration can vary by 1 degree, possibly by 2 degrees. And the lobe lift will typically be increased by 0.001".

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #31  
Old 04-24-2021, 08:05 PM
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463 Pontiac @ 5300 RPM needs.


  #32  
Old 04-25-2021, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve C. View Post
Here is a Bullet hydraulic roller lobe that is the same as the Old Faithful but with more lift....

HR288/390
288
236
160
.3900

Us it on the intake side. Then pick a exhaust lobe that suits the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the specific cylinder heads in use and/or the cars exhaust system in use, be it 4,6,8 additional degrees duration, or none..
Then it could be ground with any lobe separation desired. Now the question would be.... do they have on hand blank billet cam cores.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm
Ask for Tim Goolsby


.
Here's a question for you. I'm picking a cam for my street 494 ci motor and SD CNC RP eddy heads., here are the flow numbers and E/I ratios.

Lift (in) Intake Exhaust E/I
0.10 76.20 68.80 0.90
0.20 150.80 124.60 0.83
0.30 209.90 169.70 0.81
0.40 265.20 208.10 0.78
0.50 309.90 231.20 0.75
0.60 330.70 242.20 0.73
0.70 334.70 248.40 0.74

I was intending on running the OF with 3122B/3120B lobes with 1.65 rockers, but I'm thinking I don't need that much extra exhaust duration given the E/I ratios. My max lift Is 0.640".
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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.

Last edited by AG; 04-25-2021 at 12:49 PM. Reason: change attachment
  #33  
Old 04-25-2021, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
Here's a question for you. I'm picking a cam for my street 494 ci motor and SD CNC RP eddy heads., here are the flow numbers and E/I ratios.

Lift (in) Intake Exhaust E/I
0.10 76.20 68.80 0.90
0.20 150.80 124.60 0.83
0.30 209.90 169.70 0.81
0.40 265.20 208.10 0.78
0.50 309.90 231.20 0.75
0.60 330.70 242.20 0.73
0.70 334.70 248.40 0.74

I was intending on running the OF with 3122B/3120B lobes with 1.65 rockers, but I'm thinking I don't need that much extra exhaust duration given the E/I ratios. My max lift Is 0.640".
You should call SD. What is your CR and usage for this engine? I thinking maybe the road paver.

Stan

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  #34  
Old 04-25-2021, 01:52 PM
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Static CR is 10.8 and I will run the 3122B lobe for the intake, I'm just trying to decide on an exhaust lobe. I have a 3122B/3116B HR on a 112 LSA (246/252 at 0.050", 0.400" lobes) but it's going into a hot street 500 ci motor. I don't need that much power in my street 494 ci.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
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  #35  
Old 04-25-2021, 01:59 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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I'm posting this info below from Harold for general interest only. Since this was posted many years ago we have seen a lot of discussion regarding the amount of additional exhaust duration, dual pattern verse single pattern, the design of the exhaust port, etc. And as always a very solid point about our typical modified exhaust systems on the car, certainly a factor in the situation.

Many years ago I asked Harold at Ultradyne when he was posting here on PY about this subject of a single pattern vs. a dual pattern. Here was his reply:

There are two different items at work here.
1.---On most cylinder heads, whenever I have around a 75% exhaust-to-intake ratio, I use an 8 degree bigger exhaust cam. If the ratio is under 70%, I use 12 degrees, and around 80%, only 4. Whenever the ratio gets around 85%, single pattern cams seem to work as good as anything. Rarely do reverse-pattern(intake bigger than exhaust) cams work.
The two times they do, blown alcohol and turbo-charged, are both for putting heat into the engine or the exhaust.
2.---At the same time, it depends upon what you want the engine to do. Single pattern cams have better bottom-end, dual pattern cams have better top-end. At low RPM, the longer power stroke of a single pattern cam puts more torque into the crank. At high RPM, the most important thing is getting exhaust gas out of the engine. You can't get more charge in if old exhaust gas is still in the chamber. This is why the torque curve makes a sudden down-turn at peak horsepower. The exhaust cam has suddenly become inefficient about getting the old exhaust out, and some gas is retained and trapped, and the intake cannot fill completely because of this extra exhaust gas hanging around.
So, for the best overall power curve, on the average you want a dual-pattern cam, and around 8 to 10 degrees more exhaust. However, if a lot of bottom-end is your goal, or you have heads with a high exhaust/intake ratio, a single-pattern cam will work better.
Was this confusing enough? This is based on 30 years(1972-2002) of cam design and application...
Let me know if you have further questions...
UDHarold

Also something to consider was Harold's comments at the time made with a factory iron head in mind or also including higher flowing aftermarket cylinder heads.

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE
  #36  
Old 04-25-2021, 02:04 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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One very knowledgeable person who posts here and who has done lot's of studies related to this is Jay Stukenholtz. Certainly one to listen to !

Not long ago I worked with Tim Goolsby at Bullet Racing Cams for a new solid roller cam in my current 505. We ended up with UltraDyne lobes and with 4 degrees additional exhaust duration and with a 110 lobe separation.
Tim worked with Harold at UltraDyne for 21 years.

.

__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-25-2021 at 02:19 PM.
  #37  
Old 04-25-2021, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AG View Post
Static CR is 10.8 and I will run the 3122B lobe for the intake, I'm just trying to decide on an exhaust lobe. I have a 3122B/3116B HR on a 112 LSA (246/252 at 0.050", 0.400" lobes) but it's going into a hot street 500 ci motor. I don't need that much power in my street 494 ci.
This is the results of a calculator I put together using some ideas from Chris Straub. The flow I used was for what I believed would be in your valve lift range.

Stan
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  #38  
Old 04-25-2021, 02:44 PM
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I like the results, that was very helpful. I think I will go with an exhaust lobe maybe 4 degrees more. I'll take a look at available lobes.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #39  
Old 04-25-2021, 03:09 PM
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Any downside to running a 108 LSA? I have an Ultradyne billet SR with a 108 LSA that I could get reground.

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1967 Firechicken, 499", Edl heads, 262/266@0.050" duration and 0.627"/0.643 lift SR cam, 3.90 gear, 28" tire, 3550#. 10.01@134.3 mph with a 1.45 60'. Still WAY under the rollbar rule.
  #40  
Old 04-25-2021, 03:37 PM
Steve C. Steve C. is offline
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Hot Rod Magazine tid bit....

You must also pay attention to maintaining the proper intake/exhaust flow ratio. According to the article the exhaust side determines the width of the powerband. The greater the exhaust flow as a percentage of intake flow, the narrower the powerband.

A fwiw, I recently had Bullet regrind a used solid roller cam that I had on hand. Went with the same .050" duration on the intake but less exhaust duration. Both lobes not as aggressive as before and with less lobe lift. They can't change the lobe separation. The cost was $157.50 plus shipping.

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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 )
Old information here:
http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/

Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine)
5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE

Last edited by Steve C.; 04-25-2021 at 03:44 PM.
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