#61  
Old 11-24-2012, 05:19 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

Should not need anymore revs than a 389.Tom

  #62  
Old 11-24-2012, 06:05 PM
455Grandville's Avatar
455Grandville 455Grandville is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: St Genevieve County
Posts: 1,536
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragtop Man View Post
Nope, the "HD 301" blocks were leftover 303's that had been stacked in the shop, someplace.

I do wonder this: would hard-blocking a 301T block help with some of the strength issues?

Anxious to see how this one turns out. Have always regretted that Pontiac killed the traditional V-8 for the SBC in the Third Gen Firebird. The lighter V8 with the turbo woulda been a killer in that one.

Likewise, always wondered what a true 303 Turbo in the last of the Second Gen Firebirds would have been able to muster... with real Pontiac heads, a good crank and decent rods.
I have a complete Turbo 301 and a couple stocker 301s at my property but never tore 'em down; I'm told the 301 had fillet radius cranks and a beefed up block -

__________________
Two 1975 455 Grandvilles &
'79 455 Trans Am
‘69 Camaro SS 396/375 (owned since ‘88)
‘22 Toyota Sequoia V8
‘23 Lexus LS500 awd
‘95 Ford F-super duty 4wd 7.3 p-stroke
& countless Jeeps & off road vehicles.
  #63  
Old 11-25-2012, 11:20 PM
uforacing's Avatar
uforacing uforacing is offline
Chief Ponti-yacker
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: colorado springs
Posts: 522
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 455Grandville View Post
I have a complete Turbo 301 and a couple stocker 301s at my property but never tore 'em down; I'm told the 301 had fillet radius cranks and a beefed up block -
All 80-81 301's should be the "T" block. I got rid of my last 81 "T" block 6-7 years ago. After thinking about it it was a mistake. I need to drag the intake out I had cut for it. Performer for a short deck.

__________________
72 GTO 400-M20 Lucy Blue
86 2+2 Black
09 G8 GT red

08 Torrent GXP (wife's)
09 G8 ST (UTE) black

A pissed off fat house chimp on dope would be a lot more deadly.

Last edited by uforacing; 11-25-2012 at 11:29 PM.
  #64  
Old 11-26-2012, 07:44 PM
77 TRASHCAN's Avatar
77 TRASHCAN 77 TRASHCAN is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 31May2013 Temporary home to the world's widest (that we know of) tornado. Lord, NO more Please...
Posts: 6,591
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by uforacing View Post
All 80-81 301's should be the "T" block. I got rid of my last 81 "T" block 6-7 years ago. After thinking about it it was a mistake. I need to drag the intake out I had cut for it. Performer for a short deck.
One of my fellow Pontiac'ers told me ALSO, about ALL 80 and 81's being "T" blocks...still too weak...JMO

__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A.
I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977.

Shut it off
Shut it off
Buddy, I just shut your Prius down...
  #65  
Old 11-26-2012, 08:09 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

Too weak for what?For a 400HP daily driver?My intention is for a street build,not a race build.I have not found anyone that has tried a diff build.Seems like the NHRA guys with boost keep them together with the crap crank and rods they have in them.Thats the reson for this build.Im still not sure if im even going to short fill it.Tom

  #66  
Old 11-26-2012, 09:17 PM
77 TRASHCAN's Avatar
77 TRASHCAN 77 TRASHCAN is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: 31May2013 Temporary home to the world's widest (that we know of) tornado. Lord, NO more Please...
Posts: 6,591
Default

Weak compared to a 400, 455, not knocking your incredible effort.

I was underwhelmed, finding out here, the the main webbing had been compromised also, to make this "transportaion" engine lighter...

I'd like to see that T/A from Florida (?) run, ask a BUNCH of questions, the 301 turbo carm, that runns so well...

I saw an engine build by Don Johnston, somewhere, recently....he was filling a IA-II block, said you can't be too careful, of course it was a serious power maker.

__________________
1977 Black Trans Am 180 HP Auto, essentially base model T/A.
I'm the original owner, purchased May 7, 1977.

Shut it off
Shut it off
Buddy, I just shut your Prius down...
  #67  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:41 AM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

I think the thrust on a 3 1/4 block is also narrow compared to the 400s.Tom

  #68  
Old 11-27-2012, 11:56 AM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,541
Default

Tom the guy in AZ(forgot his name right now) that was a NHRA stocker with a 12 second 301T told me one of his motors had a 70K mile short block in it!

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #69  
Old 11-27-2012, 12:24 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

Looks like I might have the bearing shim the end of the week.Can get going on fitting the crank and get the block in joes hands.Tom

  #70  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:04 PM
marks73ta's Avatar
marks73ta marks73ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Glendale AZ
Posts: 2,098
Default

I think Pontiac recast the 301T with the lighter 400 (77-78) measurements. The early standard 301s were paper thin in the webs etc. The 301T is not as thick as the '68 to '76 400 blocks. The '80 301T block I had also used drift pins instead of solid cap dowels and the pin/dowel holes were drilled all the way thru. The center three drift pins could be punched all the way thru the back (top) of the main web. I always felt that the added beef of the T block would stand up to a good short stroke combination better than a small block chevy would. Plus th esmaller bore would mean lighter pistons. I had the block with intentions of building a strong short stroke short deck Pontiac. Due to the several differences I gave up. I did buy two sets of Callies 6.2 length/1.88 Honda rod journal rods from a Nascar team that had changed engine configurations . I'm still setting on them just in case I can still do one. My intentions were to have a custom crank made. 3.25 stroke, Honda jounals, but the 3 inch mains. At one time I had two 370 3.56 inch stroke forged cranks for this project. They use a 2.63 main journal. I had a set of spacers made but never finished them to use those cranks but I was always put off by the unavailablity of good main bearings for this size. I had bought a set of bearings from EGGE but they could never provide me with the manufacturer of or the material from which the bearings were made. Many times their parts are NOS found on shelves somewhere so they did not know. Even with the spacers and trusted bearings I still had the problem of solving a rear main seal. The 301T using 3 inch mains/seal machined channels and the 370 using the 2.63 seal diameter. I never got close to figuring out what to do there. Hence the custom crank with the 3 inch mains. Next is the lifters. Not sure what lifter will work there. Never got that far. The thrust bearing width consideration was next but like Tom said, I think a shimed 400 bearing would work fine. The next consideration is the short deck water holes. They are cast odd size/shaped openings compared to the the machined holes in the decks of the full size Pontiac blocks. I also never got to the point where I could figure out if that would present a problem or if it was easily fixed.
Skip. The gentleman down here in Phoenix running the NHRA stocker Turbo Formula is Rick Unterseh. The block I was talking about went to him after he blew his last motor. I don't know for sure if he ever used it as he was talking about giving up on racing the Turbo anymore. The motor he blew was a really intense build intended for Stock class and he was pretty down when it blew. I haven't talked to him in a long while. Mark L

__________________
My Gasser '63 Catalina build. Oh sorry, it's a Street freak. Either way it's a fun build.

Last edited by marks73ta; 11-27-2012 at 01:13 PM.
  #71  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:05 PM
marks73ta's Avatar
marks73ta marks73ta is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Glendale AZ
Posts: 2,098
Default

Tom I see you've been on the Turbo 301 boards. Mark L

__________________
My Gasser '63 Catalina build. Oh sorry, it's a Street freak. Either way it's a fun build.
  #72  
Old 11-27-2012, 01:51 PM
HWYSTR455's Avatar
HWYSTR455 HWYSTR455 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Manassas, VA
Posts: 14,658
Default

Subscribed..

__________________
.

1970 GTO Judge Tribute Pro-Tour Project 535 IA2
http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...d.php?t=760624
1971 Trans Am 463, 315cfm E-head Sniper XFlow EFI, TKO600 extreme, 9", GW suspension, Baer brakes, pro tour car
https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...ght=procharger
Theme Song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zKAS...ature=youtu.be
  #73  
Old 12-11-2012, 09:43 AM
Bob Rutledge Bob Rutledge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Subscribed..
Same here, and impatiently waiting for updates

  #74  
Old 12-11-2012, 11:48 AM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

I HATE machine shops!I have the crank,bearings and bearing shim.The block is in the shop to get a short fill and solid dowels in the mains.Was to be done yesterday and did not answer phone or return messages!Hurry up and wait!Tom

  #75  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:19 PM
Skip Fix's Avatar
Skip Fix Skip Fix is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Katy,TX USA
Posts: 20,541
Default

Mark L I think there was another guy running one also I spoke with. That namew doesn't look familiar-but it has been a few years for my memory to fade.

__________________
Skip Fix
1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever!
1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand
1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project
2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4
1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project
1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs
  #76  
Old 12-11-2012, 01:34 PM
tom s tom s is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: long beach ca usa
Posts: 18,764
Default

Shop owners daughter got hust playing soccer.Said he is making the dowles today.Maybe next week.Tom

  #77  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:21 PM
rad400 rad400 is offline
Ultimate Warrior
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Newark De.
Posts: 1,541
Default

There is a guy not sure of his name but I think he is running a Pontiac T1000 with a 301 not sure if it a turbo car. He was in HPP mag a number of years ago.

__________________
Conrad
79 Trans AM 406 #12 heads Torker II intake Crower 60210 750 holley vac. sec. T400 3500 Stall 3:73:1 rear. ECMTTFMFers. IHTTFMFers.
  #78  
Old 12-11-2012, 03:41 PM
Bob Rutledge Bob Rutledge is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 144
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
I HATE machine shops!I have the crank,bearings and bearing shim.The block is in the shop to get a short fill and solid dowels in the mains.Was to be done yesterday and did not answer phone or return messages!Hurry up and wait!Tom
Here I am just a subscriber to this thread and am impatient, can't imagine being you Tom.

  #79  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:25 PM
81TTA's Avatar
81TTA 81TTA is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tom s View Post
Hope Dave jumps in but I think he cut the flanges off,bolted a set of heads with a head gasket to the block,bolted the flanges on the heads with a intake gasket and then cut the intake at the proper angle and welded it back on?I already had the 301 water X over.Tom
I can't believe I missed this a few months ago.....

I'm very curious about how the intake manifold was modified. I've tried cutting off the flanges, milling runners and reattaching the flanges on a 301 with Torker, Performer and Torker II manifolds. Some pictures and descriptions are on the 301garage site here :

http://www.301garage.com/forum/index.php?topic=1813.0
http://www.301garage.com/forum/index.php?topic=2036.0
http://www.301garage.com/forum/index.php?topic=3049.0

The quick conclusions I found on the Torker and Performer manifolds were 1) the ports didn't match to the flanges very well after milling the needed amount of material from the manifold and 2) the exhaust crossover hung so low it hit the valley pan. I never did complete the modifications to the Torker II. But, it was looking very promising. Port-to-flange interface was better. And, the exhaust crossover didn't hang as low.

It appears you're using the Torker II as the base. But, you mention there isn't any epoxy used to match the ports to the flange? Was there any type of filler needed to smooth that area? In the pictures I have in the last link, I had a fair amount of mismatch that would have required either opening up the manifold-side ports or epoxying the flanges.


Last edited by 81TTA; 12-11-2012 at 10:33 PM.
  #80  
Old 12-11-2012, 10:58 PM
KEN CROCIE KEN CROCIE is offline
Pontiac Performance Author
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Rancho Cucamonga Ca.
Posts: 1,522
Default

Tom: what is the finished deck height on the block. I was thinking you would do better with a sbc rod.

__________________
GOOD IDEAS ARE OFTEN FOUND ABANDONED IN THE DUST OF PROCRASTINATION
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:03 AM.

 

About Us

The PY Online Forums is the largest online gathering of Pontiac enthusiasts anywhere in the world. Founded in 1991, it was also the first online forum for people to gather and talk about their Pontiacs. Since then, it has become the mecca of Pontiac technical data and knowledge that no other place can surpass.

 




Copyright © 2017