[ponchorob]

...does butler have the same old faithful cam like dave at SD performance seems the duration is different 236/ 245.....from SD and at butler 236/242 with different lope seaparations from 110 to 114....since a little spec difference could maybe make a big difference ....but maybe not....any thoughts....

[Steve C.]

If you are speaking of this cam it uses Comp XE lobes, numbers 3315 & 3316:

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2503...tegory:1272239

His similar grind with 242 degrees exhaust duration uses XE lobe 3317

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2503...tegory:1272239

The original Old Faithfull cam uses Comp High Lift Magnum lobes 3122B and 3120B, note the "B" suffix code can but not always alter the seat duration and or lobe lift than what's stated in the catalog.
The newer version of the Old Faithful cam is slightly different, I believe it uses a combination of XE and Magnum High Lift lobes. I suspect they are lobes 3196B and 3123B


.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

If you are speaking of this cam it uses Comp XE lobes, numbers 3315 & 3316:

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2503...tegory:1272239

His similar grind with 242 degrees exhaust duration uses XE lobe 3317

https://butlerperformance.com/i-2503...tegory:1272239

The original Old Faithfull cam uses Comp High Lift Magnum lobes 3122B and 3120B, note the "B" suffix code can but not always alter the seat duration and or lobe lift than what's stated in the catalog.
The newer version of the Old Faithful cam is slightly different, I believe it uses a combination of XE and Magnum High Lift lobes. I suspect they are lobes 3196B and 3123B


.

Steve,
The 3315 only has 230 @ 0.050"

I believe he is talking about something like this.
https://butlerperformance.com/i-2445...tegory:1234797

Syan

[Steve C.]

Thanks Stan, brain fade I had the Stump Puller in mind.

The second Butler cam I linked with 236/242 - 112 LSA is closer. Again both XE lobes.

Lobe 3316
288
236
157
.3470

Lobe 3317
294
242
164
.3600

112LSA

The Old Faithfull over the years has had various variants. From a early cam card:

Comp High Lift Magnum lobes

Lobe 3122B
289
236
160
.3800

Lobe 3120B
306
236
245
.3830

112 LSA


.

[Steve C.]

Or if desired a hydraulic roller cam with a bit more 0.200 duration, more exhaust duration and additional valve lift.

Comp Lobe 3196
288
236
162
.3900

Comp lobe 3123
300
246
169
.4000

And as we know any of the lobes mentioned can be custom ground with whatever lobe separation desired, be it 110, 112 or 114

https://www.compcams.com/lobe-catalog

.

[ponchorob]

yes the 236/ 242 WITH 112 BUT WILL TRY WITH 114 WITH MY 461.....

i also build another engine its a 428 ...like to use the same cam but maybe the lobe separation should stay between 110 an 112 in the 428

[69GP455]

[mention]ponchorob [/mention] I just purchased the 236/242 on a 112 LSA from Butler for my 428/455 I’m putting together. Hopefully I can give some first hand feedback on it this spring/summer. The lobes are 3316/3317, though the cam card shows slightly altered advertised of 287 293 vs. comps lobe catalog of 288 294. It is effectively a XR288HR ground on a 112lsa. The .200 intake and exhaust duration is 5 degrees smaller on the Butler grind than Dave’s OF 2.0 cam if I’m not mistaken, with a fair amount less lobe lift.

[pastry_chef]

Originally Posted by 69GP455

The lobes are 3316/3317, though the cam card shows slightly altered advertised of 287 293 vs. comps lobe catalog of 288 294. It is effectively a XR288HR

For lobe 3316 I have 287.9 @ .006

For 3317
I have 293.5 @ .006
.050 is 241.8

[Larry Navarro]

I think I have the 1st version of "old faithful". back in 2008, Using it with Dave's 290cfm CNC ported Kaufman's.
Didn't know it's had other variations through the years.

[ta man]

Originally Posted by Larry Navarro

I think I have the 1st version of "old faithful". back in 2008, Using it with Dave's 290cfm CNC ported Kaufman's.
Didn't know it's had other variations through the years.

I'm positive Dave has always sold the same Old Faithful cam and the new OF 2.0.

[tom s]

I still like the high lift magnum lobes the best.Tom

[Steve C.]

Googled up.... "Once the four timing parameters are established, the cam should be designed for maximum lift."

https://www.tildentechnologies.com/C...rformance.html


"If you want to build a street motor with the most power without a sacrifice of idle and low speed qualities, then lift is the most important factor to maximize, not duration. The best suited cams are those that seek to maximize lift while only adding a minimal amount of duration."
David Vizard


.

[grandam1979]

This is a cam I have on the shelf very close to yours,

[ponjohn]

I wonder if there are Bullet lobes that resemble the OF lobes but offer more lobe lift?

[Steve C.]

Here is a Bullet hydraulic roller lobe that is the same as the Old Faithful but with more lift....

HR288/390
288
236
160
.3900

Us it on the intake side. Then pick a exhaust lobe that suits the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the specific cylinder heads in use and/or the cars exhaust system in use, be it 4,6,8 additional degrees duration, or none..
Then it could be ground with any lobe separation desired. Now the question would be.... do they have on hand blank billet cam cores.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm
Ask for Tim Goolsby


.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Here is a Bullet hydraulic roller lobe that is the same as the Old Faithful but with more lift....

HR288/390
288
236
160
.3900

Us it on the intake side. Then pick a exhaust lobe that suits the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the specific cylinder heads in use and/or the cars exhaust system in use, be it 4,6,8 additional degrees duration, or none..
Then it could be ground with any lobe separation desired. Now the question would be.... do they have on hand blank billet cam cores.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm
Ask for Tim Goolsby


.

Steve,
When you go with more lift some numbers have to change. Comp Cams show the 3316 to be 157 @ .200". But they also have the 3196 which is shown as 288 236 162 .390

Stan

PS This is a graph of my simulation of each lobe and what the difference in lobe lift would look like. Mike / Pastry Chef maybe can post a better graph

[Steve C.]

Stan, the lobe I mentioned in post #23 was in response to this, "I wonder if there are Bullet lobes that resemble the OF lobes but offer more lobe lift?"

The original Old Faithful cam sold by Dave Bisschop uses Comp lobe 3122B on the intake.

That 3122 lobe:
289
236
160
.3800" lobe lift

The Bullet lobe is the same but with .3900" lobe lift.

.

[Steve C.]

If one wanted something similar to 236 degrees intake duration but more valve lift for modern cylinder head ports....

Comp QXI hydraulic roller lobes:

Lobe number 13450
287
235
156
.3930"

Lobe number 13451
289
237
158
.3970"


.

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Stan, the lobe I mentioned in post #23 was in response to this, "I wonder if there are Bullet lobes that resemble the OF lobes but offer more lobe lift?"

The original Old Faithful cam sold by Dave Bisschop uses Comp lobe 3122B on the intake.

That 3122 lobe:
289
236
160
.3800" lobe lift

The Bullet lobe is the same but with .3900" lobe lift.

.

Steve,
Sorry compared the 3196 to the wrong lobe. But didn't SD have a version of the cam with the 3196 lobe also?

Stan

[AG]

Originally Posted by Steve C.

Here is a Bullet hydraulic roller lobe that is the same as the Old Faithful but with more lift....

HR288/390
288
236
160
.3900

Us it on the intake side. Then pick a exhaust lobe that suits the exhaust-to-intake ratio on the specific cylinder heads in use and/or the cars exhaust system in use, be it 4,6,8 additional degrees duration, or none..
Then it could be ground with any lobe separation desired. Now the question would be.... do they have on hand blank billet cam cores.

https://www.bulletcams.com/Masters/HRlobes.htm
Ask for Tim Goolsby


.

Here's a question for you. I'm picking a cam for my street 494 ci motor and SD CNC RP eddy heads., here are the flow numbers and E/I ratios.

Lift (in) Intake Exhaust E/I
0.10 76.20 68.80 0.90
0.20 150.80 124.60 0.83
0.30 209.90 169.70 0.81
0.40 265.20 208.10 0.78
0.50 309.90 231.20 0.75
0.60 330.70 242.20 0.73
0.70 334.70 248.40 0.74

I was intending on running the OF with 3122B/3120B lobes with 1.65 rockers, but I'm thinking I don't need that much extra exhaust duration given the E/I ratios. My max lift Is 0.640".