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#1
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Oil pan choice
I am going to buy another oil pans for the new engine in building. I am currently using the Canton Pan 15-400 (6.5 qts capacity)with the drivers side kick out and a slosh baffle. But I'm looking at the 15-452 (6 qts capacity)pan with out the kick out but has trap doors to control the oil. Which would be a better option for street and strip operation?
Last edited by Scott Stoneburg; 02-20-2020 at 12:38 PM. |
#2
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I like the one with the trap door myself, It will be good controlling the oil for spirited driving.
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#3
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I am using the 15-452. I like this pan as it fits the stock chassis. I have not had any issues with mine. Just make sure you take it apart when you get it and clean it. Mine had a few pieces of welding slag in the bottom that was loose.
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66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#4
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I am leaning towards the 15-452 because the kick out on the 14-400 causes me to clock the starter to clear the pan. I plan on larger tube headers with the 535. If I could clock the starter closer to the pan it will make more clearance for the headers. I guess the 1/2 qt less oil volume isn't a huge deal
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#5
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Keep in mind when Canton states the "Pan Features 6 qt System Capacity" they mean the pan hold 5 quarts and allows for one quart of oil for a filter. That said, most common oil filters used for Pontiac do not hold one quart of oil.
( side topic, and worthy of note, how much oil is up inside a running engine at speed ) .
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 02-20-2020 at 02:52 PM. |
#6
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Canton lists 14-500 pan as 6.5 qts. I run 7 qts with filter included. I run a HP 1 filter.
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#7
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The 15-452 has got decent baffles and a decent depth. Deeper than the second gen F body pan so I had one extended forward the same length as the F body pan to get a little more capacity.
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Skip Fix 1978 Trans Am original owner 10.99 @ 124 pump gas 455 E heads, NO Bird ever! 1981 Black SE Trans Am stockish 6X 400ci, turbo 301 on a stand 1965 GTO 4 barrel 3 speed project 2004 GTO Pulse Red stock motor computer tune 13.43@103.4 1964 Impala SS 409/470ci 600 HP stroker project 1979 Camaro IAII Edelbrock head 500" 695 HP 10.33@132 3595lbs |
#8
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To add to the conversation as a fwiw, the HP-1 filter is listed as 5.75" long and 3.672" outside diameter. I run the WIX 51060R filter remote mounted and it is listed as 5.178" long and 3.66" outside diameter. I've filled it, let it settle, repeated it, then topped it off and it holds slightly less than 3/4 quart oil. My lines to and from the remote filter mount hold another 1/4 quart of oil. At speed the IA2 block might have 1 quart of oil up inside it, then there is the oil up in the cylinder heads.
.
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'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE Last edited by Steve C.; 02-20-2020 at 06:58 PM. |
#9
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Regarding the oil up inside a IA2 block. Skip's commented when he dry prelubed his block it took at least 1 qt before he was getting any pressure to the rocker arms. And that was with a full filter.
.
__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#10
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So that's a qt in the filter / lines, assuming another qt in the heads and top end? That leaves between 4 and 5 qts in the pan. Or do you feel the top of the motor will consistently hold more oil than that?
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#11
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I have a hydraulic tank fluid level indicator on my pan and at idle 1200 rpm's the level has dropped 2 qts. Sorry about the sideways picture.
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The Following User Says Thank You to BB70 For This Useful Post: | ||
#12
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I run the 15-452. I run 7 qts (total) in it and that puts the oil level at 1 qt low on the OE dipstick. I've been tempted to drop that to 6.5 or even 6 to see if it makes any more power. I do like a little extra oil since I don't run any to end restriction.
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'68 Firebird 463/pump gas/SD 325 E-heads/266-272 SR cam/1050 Dominator/3.73/ET Street Radials/1.37 60'/6.30@108.80/9.93@135.14 Hot Rod Drag Week finishing averages: 2014 - 11.12 @ 118.56 2015 - 10.84 @ 124.97 2016 - 10.56 @ 127.88 2017 - 10.29 @ 130.74 2018 - 10.29 @ 130.53 2019 - 10.16 @ 132.34 2021 - 10.09 @ 132.69 2022 - 10.13 @ 133.07 9.93 run - https://youtu.be/hII0_UlYM4U |
#13
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Scott, Honestly I cannot say for fact how much oil is up inside a block. For the most part much of this is meant to generate conversation on the subject.
Years ago I posted a related comment from a very respected source involving a higher rpm race application, he stated "going down the track with 8 qts total you only have 4 in the pan". His larger 8 qt total oil capacity was due to the addition of a remote oil oil filter. From a magazine article.... How much oil do you need. Put the oil pan on the assempled motor, start with zero oil with an empty filter. Start spinning the pump drive and keep adding oil untill you have a constant oil pressure. That is the bare minimum amount of oil. On some engines it could take 3-plus qts, 4 to be safe. And remember this is with no motion, wheel stands or braking hard on the big end. Then to add fuel to the fire there is the topic of how much oil is trapped up in Edelbrock cylinder heads.... https://forums.maxperformanceinc.com...t=return+lines .
__________________
'70 TA / 505 cid / same engine but revised ( previous best 10.63 at 127.05 ) Old information here: http://www.hotrod.com/articles/0712p...tiac-trans-am/ Sponsor of the world's fastest Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont (engine) 5.14 at 140 mph (1/8 mile) , true 10.5 tire, stock type suspension https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDoJnIP3HgE |
#14
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Quote:
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#15
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I run 6.5 qts in the 15-452 and use the K&P filter that probably holds about 1/2 qt.
Any less than 6qts my oil pressure is low when I cross the line. Above 6 no issues.
__________________
66 GTO Nostalgia Super Stock/Street Legal Car 421 CID, stock block, Wenzler Intake, 2- Carter 750 AFB's, 3.90 Gears, Full Factory Interior, Full Exhaust, Stock Suspension 3750LBS 9.77@136.99 Multiple NSCA/NMCA World Champion 66 GTO 389 3x2, 4 speed, 4.33 gear, Montero Red 33K original Miles 67 GTO 2dr Post, 428, Tri Power, 3.55 Gears 80 Trans Am Black SE Y84 W72 WS6 |
#16
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Quote:
I have a 7qt Canton pan that is unlike any of the pans on their website. Its tapered out on both sides on the sump. Maybe its not offered anymore ? |
#17
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The pick up I made will be for my 535 build. I used the depth of the Canton pan 14-452 as my guide when making the pick up. Both the pans I am looking at are the same depth so either pan will work.
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#18
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How are you guys sealing up the Canton 15-452?
Specifically, the way the windage tray is sandwiched between the oil pan and the block. |
#19
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I don't run a bondage tray on my current 474. Just a crank scraper
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#20
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Quote:
Lay the tray down and lightly tighten all the bolts- let it dry overnight. Trim off the dry rtv that sqeezes out on the pan rail from under the tray. Put a small dab at the edges of the tray- block before the pan gasket goes on to fill the small voids |
The Following User Says Thank You to BB70 For This Useful Post: | ||
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