[grivera]

This article claims warming up engines is old tech for carbureted engines. It mentions reduced oil flow at idle but leaves out the variable of thicker oil.

https://www.verifythis.com/amp/artic...d-d1d56006e5d9

[25stevem]

The clearances a motor is made with are what’s needed for the best longevity at normal operating temps.
Just to say that important detail again normal operation temps are key.

As such the faster a motor attains that temp within reason the better barring the application of heavy throttle to get the engine temps up fast.

Only once the ring gaps have closed up to seal
Well will the least amount of acid producing combustion gasses get into the crank case and in turn into the oil.

And yes a oil needs to flow well in cold temps to do the job that’s needed of it.

[grivera]

With the oil used today this makes sense- Lexus uses 0W20

[RocktimusPryme]

Ill say this, I bought a 2001 911 last year. One of their fatal flaws is bore scoring.

Porsche themselves released an addendum to the manual that says not to let the engine sit and idle cold. It basically says start the car and then start driving it. So they clearly think there is something to it.

Now with that said, I dont think all engines and oil systems are equal here. Im sure it affects some models way more than others. I know a lot of the 911 forum guys now wont use the remote start function on their normal cars. I still do. I figure the engineers likely accounted for that in cars that were expressly sold with the intention of letting them warm up in the morning on cold days.

[PunchT37]

The boxer engine has a dry side to the bores, piston, and rings by it’s nature.

So…

[Stuart]

It's the method I've used for many years. Start the car and let it idle for 30 seconds or a minute while I get settled, buckle my seat belts, adjust the radio, etc., then drive gently for the first couple miles. It warms up the engine (and the heater) faster, plus it also helps warm up the transmission and differential.

[mzbk2l]

0W-40 synthetic oil and "targeted cooling" in the engine probably make this true for newer cars. I can cold start my car in 65° ambient and the coolant temp is nearing 100° before I leave the driveway.

[61-63]

baloney!

[25stevem]

What is your driveway 2 miles long for Gods sake?

[The Champ]

Originally Posted by mzbk2l

0W-40 synthetic oil and "targeted cooling" in the engine probably make this true for newer cars. I can cold start my car in 65° ambient and the coolant temp is nearing 100° before I leave the driveway.

I can believe that as just yesterday with the air temp at -10, I was hitting nearly 100 degrees got to the corner - within about .5 miles. Having said that, the vehicle had been in my garage which was 42 degrees before opening the garage door.

[mzbk2l]

Here's from a blurb in Enginebuilder magazine talking about GM's 3.6l and 3.0TT engines. I have a 4.2, but it was clean-sheet designed even later than the other two, so I'm guessing it includes such technology.

All-new, patented “targeted” cooling system that provides strategic cooling of the engine’s hottest areas while simultaneously fostering faster warm-up, which enhances efficiency

Everyone who's read this forum for any length of time knows the coolant flow path in older engines is not exactly optimized for anything besides ease of manufacturing... why would it be hard to believe GM could find a way to improve on it?

[kingbuzzo]

It's the tree huggers...again

It's so cold here if you didn't warm her up she would stall in the driveway - that if you could see out the winder.

[ZeGermanHam]

My philosophy is...

Old carbureted car: Start it up and let it warm up enough to get the temp needle off the cold peg, which really only takes a few minutes, then head out on your way

Modern car: Start it up and drive, but don't press hard on the engine until the coolant and oil has reached normal operating temp

Originally Posted by RocktimusPryme

Ill say this, I bought a 2001 911 last year. One of their fatal flaws is bore scoring.

Porsche themselves released an addendum to the manual that says not to let the engine sit and idle cold. It basically says start the car and then start driving it. So they clearly think there is something to it.

Now with that said, I dont think all engines and oil systems are equal here. Im sure it affects some models way more than others. I know a lot of the 911 forum guys now wont use the remote start function on their normal cars. I still do. I figure the engineers likely accounted for that in cars that were expressly sold with the intention of letting them warm up in the morning on cold days.

Yeah, oiling systems are indeed not all created equal. The cylinder scoring issues that plagued the 996 generation of 911 are pretty much isolated to that generation. Porsche has since fixed the problem that caused it. I know a guy who had to replace the engine in his 996 911 because of cylinder scoring. I spend plenty of time in and around 911s, and they are bombproof for the most part. I have seen a few Caymans grenade their engines at the track, though. Not sure why, but they don't seem quite as robust as the 911 when tracked.

[turbo69bird]

Originally Posted by kingbuzzo

It's the tree huggers...again

It's so cold here if you didn't warm her up she would stall in the driveway - that if you could see out the winder.

Would rattle the **** out of the pistons too.
We used to have 250 Honda engines at the track blowing up like crazy. Forged wiseco pistons were the norm. I swapped over to a WSM hyperutectic pistons and coated the top and sides . What was happening is guys would race the first two motos
Then they’d come back for food before the last chance qualifiers, bike would cool down they’d eat whatever and be late going back .fire them up and hammer it to the starting line rattling the **** out of the cold piston the whole way . This contributes to a lot of failures .

My solutions was so good I didn’t sell Any pistons or top ends after awhile shot myself in the foot on that one .

[turbo69bird]

I never did understand the carb Vs fuel injection debate pertaining to engine wear, .the internals still need to warm up and take to their heated up size in a fuel injected car as well as on a carved car. I think that’s more about drivability than engine wear. Yes carbs wash down the cylinders more w fuel that’s a thing w wear, but doesn’t really seem to make sense w start up. And warm up w one Vs the other. If anything the fuel injected should have more oil in the cyls and be able to get away w less warm up . But that only pertains to the cylinders not the rest of the engine so much

[RocktimusPryme]

Originally Posted by ZeGermanHam

My philosophy is...

Old carbureted car: Start it up and let it warm up enough to get the temp needle off the cold peg, which really only takes a few minutes, then head out on your way

Modern car: Start it up and drive, but don't press hard on the engine until the coolant and oil has reached normal operating temp



Yeah, oiling systems are indeed not all created equal. The cylinder scoring issues that plagued the 996 generation of 911 are pretty much isolated to that generation. Porsche has since fixed the problem that caused it. I know a guy who had to replace the engine in his 996 911 because of cylinder scoring. I spend plenty of time in and around 911s, and they are bombproof for the most part. I have seen a few Caymans grenade their engines at the track, though. Not sure why, but they don't seem quite as robust as the 911 when tracked.

The 996 and 997s are both known for it. 997s are honestly more known for it because the IMS bearing on the 996 overshadows the bore scoring. Mine was bought with 10k on a fresh rebuild with the IMS solution already installed. So mine should be pretty bulletproof.

But yeah relevant to this conversation on the warm up I think Porsche's recommendations on the 996/997s are to start up and drive, then keep the RPMs under 3500 until the oil is up to temp. They never mention coolant temp, just oil. Its been a minute since I read the actual memo over on the 911 boards but that should be ballpark correct.

They also started recommending a slightly thicker oil a few years ago. They came out with their own brand of "classic" oil for several different models. More zinc and a 5w50 IIRC. I think the original recommendation was a Mobil 1 0w40 when they were new.


Funny story related to cold oil: I think Im an old man at 38, but not really being from a wintery state and growing up working on my 3rd gen instead of 70+ year old Ford 9N tractors I made some extra work for myself last year.

I have a 1943 Willys MB. It was in my storage barn last winter. I wanted to move it into the garage to work on it because I want to sell it. I go out there. Start to push it. It wont roll. Shifter looks to be in neutral but must not be. So I set to trying to get it out of gear. Wont move. Im wicked confused. Its sorta done this before, but you rock the wheels and bit and then try again, usually it will pop out of the gear its stuck in. No love this time. Long story short I end up completely breaking off the shifter. So I take the shift plate off only to discover that the already super thin GL 1 Mineral Oil the gearbox on those things take, got a little bit of water in it and it all froze solid. So it was in neutral the whole time. Im just an idiot. Later my dad told me that it happens with old tractors in winter all the time.

[kingbuzzo]

I memba the old days growing up on the lake with only an ice road for access.

The old man would light a small fire under the oil pan of his heep cuz the oil was thicker than molasses - wouldn't not turn.

It's life or death up north.

[77 TRASHCAN]

I have a 2002 Olds Alero, my high gas price driver. 2.2 4 banger, excellent engine!!!
Coolant warms up incredibly quick.
My usual DD is my 2005 Silverado, 5.3. It takes a little longer to warm up, but not long.

As posted by several. Every enginge is different. Motor oil viscosity will have different cold start effects in Alaska vs. Florida.

Most engines need to get the oil circulating, at least SOME.

The "know it all" info writer is just another of the current trend of folks that think they have ALL the answers. Some of them take great pride in calling themselves "influencers". I hate that term. In Smokey Yunicks biography, he called them BS'ers, had NO time for any of them.
I am same!!!

[hurryinhoosier62]

I have seen the results of cold operation of engines in literally thousands of diesel and gasoline engines. Running a cold engine is something I will never do. Here’s an example; both my Forester and the wife’s CrossTrek have a blue indicator light that signifies the engine is cold and should not be driven. It takes three minutes for the engine to reach a temperature where the “cold engine” light goes off. I won’t go into how long it took to warm up cranky old radial aircraft engines with 60 weight oil in them.

[Tom Vaught]

Back in the early 70s, I had a part-time job at the University delivering eggs to restaurants very early in the morning.
The university was fairly close to the shore of Lake Michigan so lots of ice and snow effect, about 70 miles.

Obviously the restaurants and their customers wanted their egg breakfasts.

The delivery truck was a gas powered commercial vehicle and had installed on it TWO engine heater systems.
One for the Engine Oil and one for the Radiator system. I assume those systems are still available.
Never had an issue with firing up that vehicle and letting it idle while I closed up the company shipping doors
and unhooked the power to the heating systems.

Today I can just let the vehicle outside sit and can drive the other vehicle located in a heated garage. But you still have to contend with snow removal at times and have had several 12" snowfalls to clear away. That is where the College Kids came in.

Today I have a commercial outfit blade the 230 foot driveway to the road. I sit in the house and watch the news.
I also have a large food pantry. Generac and a good furnace and no need to go out. Lots of Ford people worked from home.

So I do not understand the need to drive a very cold vehicle in the winter. But I am retired too.
And I BELIEVE you can damage a engine with little oil volume flowing thru the engine on very cold days.

Tom V.