[bob prichard]

I have a friend that is getting very low oil to his rockers on his 1969 Fitebird 400 motor. He has pulled the motor and can’t find any blockages. Prior to that, he tried a different oil pump and blew lots of air. His lifters seem to be ok. How much oil should be coming from the pushrod tubes when pump is being turned by a drill? Any suggestions? Thank you.

[steve25]

What if anything was done to the block?
Was it stripped down and rebuilt?

Does he have a oil pressure gauge or just a light.

If he has a gauge what does the gauge show when spinning the pump, at least 20 ?

Also many times lifters will not pump much oil unless they are being cycled.

Pull out all the spark plugs and on a charged up battery spin the motor over for 20 seconds and check if more oil shows up to the top.

[jhein]

The first pontiac motor I built I forgot to put in the front oil galley plugs.

[bob prichard]

He says he is using Comp Cams lifters with no hole in top for push rods oil that he bought from Butler. Otherwise, lots of pressure at lifters.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by steve25

Also many times lifters will not pump much oil unless they are being cycled.

SO TRUE!

Guys complain about not squirting oil over the fenders during "priming", and burning-up drill motors because they won't stop spinning the pump to "prime" the rocker arms.

And then the "problem" solves itself when the engine is started.

Originally Posted by bob prichard

He says he is using Comp Cams lifters with no hole in top for push rods oil that he bought from Butler.

I have no idea how that's gonna work, unless this is a prehistoric engine that doesn't oil through the pushrods. Did Pontiac ever do that? Kinda thinking they did in the early years, with hollow rocker studs. Maybe I'm hallucinating.

[steve25]

There’s got to be a oil feed hole in the disc that the push rod sits in .
If not then I can’t fathom how any oil AT all is being seen up at the rockers!

[Bill Hanlon]

Originally Posted by Schurkey

unless this is a prehistoric engine that doesn't oil through the pushrods. Did Pontiac ever do that?

They did, but most were done by '63 and the last were '64.

[bob prichard]

Thank you for your replies. My friend says both Butler and Comp Cams use the lifters without the holes. He bought them from Butler and is going to stick with them.

[steve25]

In my haste to post you a reply I gave out some info that might cause some harm to the spark coil.

When you yank out all the plugs to crank the motor fast you also need to kill the 12 volts to the ignition system.

[chiphead]

What is the PN for the lifters that were used? As was said, if he accidentally got a set of lifters for the pre-64 engines, they won't oil through the pushrod. Assuming those still exist. Also, chevy lifters have the wrong oil band, they don't oil correctly in a pontiac. People make that mistake too.

I've always been able to get plenty of oil to the rockers, often too much. Pontiacs really pump oil to the top at anything above idle. Crank it and see if it lubes?

[Kenth]

Never heard of or seen Pontiac hydraulic lifters w/o hole in the plunger were the push rod sits.
Pictures or partnumber?

[grivera]

How would the rockers, upper pushrods and pivot points get lubed in this situation? Seems like a recipe for disaster.

[West Coast GTO]

Here is a photo of dis-assembled lifters from my car when I bought it. There is a hole where the push rod sits but the blank metal disc blocked oil from that hole. Almost no oil from the top of the push rod to the rockers. When I ordered replacements from Butler, was told these were for racing only and shouldn't be on my street car.

[Schurkey]

Originally Posted by bob prichard

My friend says both Butler and Comp Cams use the lifters without the holes. He bought them from Butler and is going to stick with them.

Yeah, 'cause even though there's no way for oil to get to the rockers, the rockers won't wear prematurely.

Maybe he should get a bigger drill motor to prime with. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Originally Posted by West Coast GTO

Here is a photo of dis-assembled lifters from my car when I bought it. There is a hole where the push rod sits but the blank metal disc blocked oil from that hole. Almost no oil from the top of the push rod to the rockers. When I ordered replacements from Butler, was told these were for racing only and shouldn't be on my street car.

So they replace the stamped/embossed/drilled metering valve in the lifter with a plain, flat disc?

Butler makes me crazy.

[Dragncar]

Originally Posted by bob prichard

Thank you for your replies. My friend says both Butler and Comp Cams use the lifters without the holes. He bought them from Butler and is going to stick with them.

Look, who cares if he bought them from Butler. If Butler sold him lifters with no oil hole they are for a 1950s era Pontiac engine.
You need oil fed through your pushrods to oil your top end. Oil the tip of your pushrods and the pivot ball on your rockers not to mention cooling your valve springs.
All that will be junk if you keep running this engine like this.
You need lifters with the oil hole and the cam is broke in with lifters without.
Breaking in new lifters on a old cam has a higher failure rate. And getting a whole new cam with proper lifters is a pain and expense not to mention these days a risk of wiping a lobe.
You might be able to change some internals from a old-used set of lifters and get that top disc with the oil hole so you can properly oil this thing.
That way you already have lifters broken in with your cam.

[1968GTO421]

Here is Butler's list of Pontiac lifters. For the most part I cannot discern with my ancient eyes any differences in them. Some might be for the pre-1964 Pontiacs which oiled through the rocker arm studs (instead of through lifter) but again the oil passages must be blocked off or something. Posts #13-14 shed some light on this.

https://butlerperformance.com/c-1234...t-lifters.html

[West Coast GTO]

I hope I didn't post incorrectly. Butler sold me the Johnson Hy-Lifts as replacements for the ones in my photo that were in my car when I bought it. They didn't sell me the race only lifters. I don't know where the previous owner sourced those .

Originally Posted by Schurkey

Yeah, 'cause even though there's no way for oil to get to the rockers, the rockers won't wear prematurely.

Maybe he should get a bigger drill motor to prime with. Yeah, that's the ticket.


So they replace the stamped/embossed/drilled metering valve in the lifter with a plain, flat disc?

Butler makes me crazy.