[hurryinhoosier62]

Hybrids make far more sense to me than EVs. Out where I live we are fifteen miles from the nearest charging station.

[jhein]

For me this is still a solution to a problem I don't have. My ICEVs work great. Visit a gas station once a week or less. I've been thinking about getting my own tank and pump here at home so I'll almost never need to go to a gas station again.

[misterp266]

26 miles is not really enough. Not sure how big the battery is but maybe two would fit? A 50 mile range would be OK for a hybrid. The computer decides when it’s on battery and when it’s on ICE so it will last longer than you might think.
I think more people will lean toward a hybrid before they go full EV. There’s a whole lot of Priuss (is that the plural?) out there.

[Ogre]

Originally Posted by jhein

... a solution to a problem ...

Hmmm, a solution looking for a problem ... sounds about right.

Not gonna bad-mouth those who want to have the technology. I still would like to have some empirical evidence that a problem exists, then give me the solution.

Math doesn't add up for me right now ...

Ogre

[misterp266]

IF I was in the market for something new, it might be worth considering. BUT, only if in the end, the costs are less. If gas goes up more, mpg will be a bigger issue. BUT, if electricity also goes up, that would probably negate any savings.
The consumer does not get what he wants, he gets what is thrust upon him. At least we still have choices! For now . . . .

[b-man]

My only real issue with hybrid vehicles is having 2 separate drivetrains to worry about.

Modern vehicles are already complicated enough without adding in another electric drive system and the associated battery pack.

I buy ICEV only and will continue to do so whenever I need a new vehicle.

Good luck with your wife’s new hybrid SUV, hopefully it hangs in there for the long haul.

[jhein]

Simpler is usually better. Especially when it comes to reliability/durability as well as cost and ease of repair and maintenance.

[mgarblik]

Albert Einstein: "The best design is the simplest design that works". Unfortunately, no car built in decades, meets this criteria. A hybrid is the best of both worlds and the worst of both worlds. Best or worst is determined by reliability. Hoping for the best. I just love it when current College level automotive students stare blankly at something like my 62 Catalina and have no comprehension whatsoever how in the world it can run without a computer, fuel injection or any other electronics.

['ol Pinion head]

Wife was ready for a new SUV late 2021, & as we watched fuel prices higher & higher, ended up pulling the trigger a year ago, late May. Did a lot of research, & decided to go with a Hybrid RAV4 XSE. While a compact SUV, not much smaller rear interior wise than our 2006 4Runner Sport. Neither of us were sold on several features of the Hybrid Highlander, so we were like let's go a little smaller.

In discussions with multiple dealers we considered a RAV4 Prime, which is the plug in (55 miles on battery). The Prime's are the quickest of hybrids in their class. Their bigger battery also adds another 500 lbs Problem a year ago last Spring was only a few states were getting the allocation of RAV4 Prime's. They were just beginning to be avail in TX, as CA seemed to be getting the majority of them. The availability issue as well as the Fed Govt rebate being no more, meant no $7500 incentive. As it stood, getting a Prime was going to cost us another 10-12K over a well optioned Hybrid XSE. That was IF we could even lock down buying a new Prime. As it stands my wife loves the Hybrid XSE. Drove it last night, the instrumentation shows it averaging 37.4 mpg over the last year, little over 18,000 miles. Would even be higher if we didnt have several long road trips on it. Where the Hybrid Toyotas really shine is when you mainly drive in town.

.

[jhein]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

Albert Einstein: "The best design is the simplest design that works". Unfortunately, no car built in decades, meets this criteria. A hybrid is the best of both worlds and the worst of both worlds. Best or worst is determined by reliability. Hoping for the best. I just love it when current College level automotive students stare blankly at something like my 62 Catalina and have no comprehension whatsoever how in the world it can run without a computer, fuel injection or any other electronics.

Definitely true. The simplest possible solution is long gone. But the simplest available solution is still an option.

[Bill S]

Not a SUV, but I bought a 22 Prius Prime last fall. 25 miles EV range covers many local trips, or close to it. I work 24 miles away and can charge free there. I also put solar panels on my house this year. I got two quotes from the solar company one for just much much I used before the Prius, and another for the extra panels to charge it. Delta cost $9 a month. About a penny a mile.
At 8000 miles, getting 114 mpg based on gas usage. Longer trips range 56-72 mpg, when using gas.

I like the PHEV concept. I trust Toyota versus the other car makers. The engine is rock solid reliable, electric motors are solid too.
Just like a EV only car, the battery is the concern. With a PHEV, it is a smaller battery, and Toyota's logic is not to fully charge or discharge it. Plus the Hybrid function adds charge while the engine is running. (Of course regenative braking helps).
For what the industry is pricing cars today, I got more for my money.

[RocktimusPryme]

Ive never had a plug in hybrid, but I have had a normal one. And an early one at that (04 Civic). It was a good experience other than being the most boring car in history. Total appliance.

I always thought we tried to jump from hybrid to full EV too fast.

[Lemans64]

I work for a Toyota Dealer and average life span of Hybrid battery is said to be 10 years, so make sure you put this into your calculation.
Battery replacement is around 4-5 G. hat is for Toyota replacement battery.

[mgarblik]

Because Toyota was so early in the game, early 1990's, they have a long track record now. I am seeing the full hybrids fail the large battery now on a regular basis. Good used hybrid batteries for a Prius are only $350-600 at a junk yard. About the cost of a used transmission for an old gas engine car, less than the cost of an engine. But the surprising reality is, at least for Toyota, the vehicles are extremely reliable and long lasting. Although the most boring car ever produced and one of the worst handling, the total cost of ownership, cradle to grave is low. So I don't think it's impossible to have an extremely reliable, complicated vehicle. Toyota has proven that. Jeep, being a Fiat design, with a "world vehicle" approach to the hardware, electronics and software, it's just impossible to predict at this point. The 8 year warranty is a good start.

[Bill S]

Originally Posted by Lemans64

I work for a Toyota Dealer and average life span of Hybrid battery is said to be 10 years, so make sure you put this into your calculation.
Battery replacement is around 4-5 G. hat is for Toyota replacement battery.

The Toyota PHEV batteries are Panasonic lithium ion, different than the hybrid vehicles.
Yes more expensive right now, but not sure if their life will be similar to a Telsa's battery life.
I'm hoping for 15 years life.

What happens to pure EVs ? Throw away car with the very big batteries?

[Jay S]

Eric does the engine shut off at stop lights after the battery is gone and back to running on the engine? Does is do that at all? Just trying to compare.

It seems like different concepts are being discussed different than Eric’s wife’s plug in SUV, the plug-in hybrid and hybrid as far as I can see are 2 different things. Possibly if a plug in hybrid battery fails you may still be able too drive it? Unless the battery has other purposes in the vehicle? It’s goal is to provide EV type power for short trips only switching to the engine beyond the battery, versus the full hybrid uses a combination of the engine and battery much of the time. The hybrid appears to be more efficient on gas for long trips, but the plug in hybrid shines for short trips?

My brothers wife had a Prius, 07 or 08 IRC. It was pretty problem free the first 50K miles. After that it had tons of issues with the engine. My brother used seafoam to unstick the engine rings multiple times. The gave it to one of their friends and I think it is still running. It uses a lot of oil and smokes. It is past 100K miles now, but there is no way it will make it too 200. I don’t think I would be overly excited about owning a used hybrid. The plug in might be better though used if it isn’t as dependent on the battery and the engine lasts like a normal engine. May even be better if the engine is only used on longer trips??

[tom s]

If I was still working and have to travel the freeways I would be getting a plugin hybrid to be able to be in the car pool lane.JMO,Tom

[Elarson]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Eric does the engine shut off at stop lights after the battery is gone and back to running on the engine? Does is do that at all? Just trying to compare.

It seems like different concepts are being discussed different than Eric’s wife’s plug in SUV, the plug-in hybrid and hybrid as far as I can see are 2 different things. Possibly if a plug in hybrid battery fails you may still be able too drive it? Unless the battery has other purposes in the vehicle? It’s goal is to provide EV type power for short trips only switching to the engine beyond the battery, versus the full hybrid uses a combination of the engine and battery much of the time. The hybrid appears to be more efficient on gas for long trips, but the plug in hybrid shines for short trips?

My brothers wife had a Prius, 07 or 08 IRC. It was pretty problem free the first 50K miles. After that it had tons of issues with the engine. My brother used seafoam to unstick the engine rings multiple times. The gave it to one of their friends and I think it is still running. It uses a lot of oil and smokes. It is past 100K miles now, but there is no way it will make it too 200. I don’t think I would be overly excited about owning a used hybrid. The plug in might be better though used if it isn’t as dependent on the battery and the engine lasts like a normal engine. May even be better if the engine is only used on longer trips??

The Jeep can be switched into one of 3 modes: hybrid (where it mixes gas engine and electric motor), electric (which ignores the gas engine....although hopefully it reverts to gas when the battery is at 0%) or gas-only.

The hybrid propulsion battery is not needed for the rest of the vehicle functions. It drives fine on gas when the battery is depleted. The hybrid programming prefers to propel the car on electric from a standing start and then blend the gas engine in after it's underway; when the charge is low. It can do that on less than 1% charge. So it does have a version of start-stop function for the gas engine. I do have reservations about the long-term health of things like bearings when the engine is started and stopped more.

On a happy note, if you stand on it, it runs both the electric and gas motors together and it's pretty quick.

We're still learning the ins and outs of it.

Eric

[David Jones]

Originally Posted by Charlie Brengun

Add some solar panels to your home and charrge during the day when the car sits. Free mileage (well not really as there is a cost to recover but you get the idea).

If most your driving is local (low miles) a hybrid or full electric car works out well. However you probably still need a normal engine car for longer trips. For me that is ok, I like having multiple cars.

A 20 amp "kit" from Home Depot is about $400. I suspect it's crap, but it's a starting point.

[Greg Reid]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Eric does the engine shut off at stop lights after the battery is gone and back to running on the engine? Does is do that at all? Just trying to compare.

It seems like different concepts are being discussed different than Eric’s wife’s plug in SUV, the plug-in hybrid and hybrid as far as I can see are 2 different things. Possibly if a plug in hybrid battery fails you may still be able too drive it? Unless the battery has other purposes in the vehicle? It’s goal is to provide EV type power for short trips only switching to the engine beyond the battery, versus the full hybrid uses a combination of the engine and battery much of the time. The hybrid appears to be more efficient on gas for long trips, but the plug in hybrid shines for short trips?

I was wondering some of the same things. Google told me this:

What is the difference between hybrid and plug-in hybrid?
Plug-in hybrids can run solely on the electric motor for a short range, while the gas engine and electric motor in a hybrid are always running simultaneously. The battery in a hybrid is charged by the gas engine, while the battery in a plug-in hybrid has to be charged from an outlet or charger.