[Vid]

Maybe someone can help me with an answer to my question. Car is a ‘69 LeMans with a Muncie.

Having some shifting problems, here’s what’s going on:
1. If the car is ROLLING, no problem shifting at all. For example if I’m approaching a red stoplight, downshifting to 1st while the car is rolling is no problem.
2. If I’m approaching a stoplight perhaps in 3rd or 4th and shift to neutral or even just push in the clutch, once the car has completely STOPPED, getting it into 1st (or even 2nd or reverse for that matter) is met with considerable resistance and a real ugly fight to get it in gear.

I’m guessing it’s clutch more than worn out synchros. I’ve adjusted the clutch rod just about to the maximum with little to no improvement. What do you guys think?


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[tom s]

I would bet on the clutch adjustment.Try put it in reverse,if it grinds there its the adjustment,no syncros in R.Tom

[F ROCK]

I'm no expert but I'm going to say shifter linkage.
It doesnt take much slop.
In what condition are the bushings on the shifter fingers?
Might just need a hurst tune up kit with those little bushings and springy black cotter pins.
I bought a 66 lemans with a similar problem.
When I looked under there i found no bushings at all, and nails instead of cotter pins.

[Vid]

Originally Posted by F ROCK

I'm no expert but I'm going to say shifter linkage.
It doesnt take much slop.
In what condition are the bushings on the shifter fingers?
Might just need a hurst tune up kit with those little bushings and springy black cotter pins.
I bought a 66 lemans with a similar problem.
When I looked under there i found no bushings at all, and nails instead of cotter pins.

F Rock, thanks. Definitely could be a factor in the equation. I haven’t looked very closely at the shifter yet but was planning to tune it up when I replace the motor and trans in a month or so. Could be some binding going on.

Tom I didn’t realize that reverse had no synchros, shows how much I know about manual 4 speeds, lol.


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[tom s]

The reason to put the trans in a forward gear before going into R!

[Stan Weiss]

Originally Posted by F ROCK

I'm no expert but I'm going to say shifter linkage.
It doesnt take much slop.
In what condition are the bushings on the shifter fingers?
Might just need a hurst tune up kit with those little bushings and springy black cotter pins.
I bought a 66 lemans with a similar problem.
When I looked under there i found no bushings at all, and nails instead of cotter pins.

Google Hurst shifter spring clips. That is what I always use.

Stan

[PDC]

I went through a period when I had a helluva time getting my Muncie into first at a red light. Trans had very recently been rebuilt by a very good local trans guy. He recommended at a stop depressing the clutch and putting the trans into 3rd, then pulling the shifter back to ‘N’ and she would glide easily into 1st. He said I might need to do this a couple of dozen times post rebuild and then it would be fine. He was 100% right. Sometimes (depending on what’s going on in the gearbox) engaging 3rd somehow lines up 1st.

[F ROCK]

Originally Posted by Stan Weiss

Google Hurst shifter spring clips. That is what I always use.

Stan

Yep. thats them. you def cant use regular cotter pins, they need that tension.

[Vid]

Originally Posted by PDC

I went through a period when I had a helluva time getting my Muncie into first at a red light. Trans had very recently been rebuilt by a very good local trans guy. He recommended at a stop depressing the clutch and putting the trans into 3rd, then pulling the shifter back to ‘N’ and she would glide easily into 1st. He said I might need to do this a couple of dozen times post rebuild and then it would be fine. He was 100% right. Sometimes (depending on what’s going on in the gearbox) engaging 3rd somehow lines up 1st.

PDC I’ll try that too. I’m not extremely concerned about the problem because I have a whole new drivetrain from fan to rear sitting in my garage waiting for me to install it. But! I do have to renew the registration by Dec 31st and here in Nevada I have drive it over to the DMV to get the odometer inspected. They want to make sure I’m keeping the annual mileage under 5000 otherwise I’ll have to get different plates and get it smogged every year. So I’ll be clunking my way through the gearbox to get that task done. Then the fun starts!


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[MarkS57]

My 1st 68 GTO had this problem, the clutch pressure plate diaphragm had partially collapsed. No adjusting that out.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Vid

PDC I’ll try that too. I’m not extremely concerned about the problem because I have a whole new drivetrain from fan to rear sitting in my garage waiting for me to install it. But! I do have to renew the registration by Dec 31st and here in Nevada I have drive it over to the DMV to get the odometer inspected. They want to make sure I’m keeping the annual mileage under 5000 otherwise I’ll have to get different plates and get it smogged every year. So I’ll be clunking my way through the gearbox to get that task done. Then the fun starts!


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Do yourself a favor and adjust a little more release into the clutch. (a little less free play). It just takes a small amount. I am guessing that will relieve all the issues. Easy enough to put back if it doesn't work.

[Sirrotica]

FWIW, Pontiacs have a tendency to wear almost every part in the mechanical clutch linkage. If you stack just 1/16 of an inch in all the pivot points of that linkage you can lose 1/4 of an inch pretty quickly. Look closely at ever hole where the clutch rods go into the bell crank, look for wear on the rods themselves for wear. I have seen the dimple in the throw out fork that the pointed rod sits in, wear completely through the fork, and protrude on the other side.

The pivot ball on the block, and the inside of the shaft will wear too if no one ever has greased the bell crank/cross shaft. The ball that connects to the frame bracket also have a tendency to work loose, losing even more adjustment. If your clutch linkage is original to the car, it's entirely possible to have a little here, and a little here, the throw out fork will not move enough to fully disengage the clutch completely.

I've also seen the pivot ball inside of the bellhousing and the fork wear.

I've also seen people discard the return spring under the hood that keeps the throw out bearing pulled away from the pressure plate. Everything needs to be there, and in good condition to make the clutch work as it should, and the transmission shift properly.

[Vid]

Originally Posted by Sirrotica

I've also seen people discard the return spring under the hood that keeps the throw out bearing pulled away from the pressure plate.

That was exactly the case with my car when I bought it and I think it was the first thing I repaired on the old gal.


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[geeteeohguy]

Agree that clutch is not disengaging all the way. What Brad (Sirrotica) said in spades. Have run into every single one of those issues over the years, including a clutch Z bar bracket breaking clean off the frame while on the SF Bay Bridge during commute hours.

[Vid]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Agree that clutch is not disengaging all the way. What Brad (Sirrotica) said in spades. Have run into every single one of those issues over the years, including a clutch Z bar bracket breaking clean off the frame while on the SF Bay Bridge during commute hours.

Lol you’re lucky nobody punted you over the rail and into the Bay!

Will definitely inspect the entire clutch linkage. Seems I once had a ‘69 Nova with a really sloppy clutch that absolutely did not want to stay adjusted. Replaced every bushing and spring between the pedal and the trans arms and suddenly it felt brand new, like I was driving Grumpy’s Toy, haha.

I am looking at a Hurst Comp/Plus shifter rebuild kit (p/n 3327303) and figuring this will work on the original factory shifter? I’d love to drop in a Super Shifter but I don’t think it’ll work with the original console which I prefer to keep.


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[geeteeohguy]

Originally Posted by Vid

Lol you’re lucky nobody punted you over the rail and into the Bay!

Will definitely inspect the entire clutch linkage. Seems I once had a ‘69 Nova with a really sloppy clutch that absolutely did not want to stay adjusted. Replaced every bushing and spring between the pedal and the trans arms and suddenly it felt brand new, like I was driving Grumpy’s Toy, haha.

I am looking at a Hurst Comp/Plus shifter rebuild kit (p/n 3327303) and figuring this will work on the original factory shifter? I’d love to drop in a Super Shifter but I don’t think it’ll work with the original console which I prefer to keep.


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I recently rebuilt a Hurst shifter from the early '60's and it was pretty easy. My shims were actually ok. It was mainly crusty and way out of whack with two shims swapped. Paul at 5speeds.com has a great youtube video on disassembly and overhaul of these units. It is not hard. Nobody punted me into the bay....I was able to start the car in 1st gear and float the gears to get the remaining 3 miles or so to the welding shop by my workplace . Have had to do it a few times since with failed clutch linkage and slave cylinders on different vehicles. If you can float the gears, no need for a clutch at all. Driving non-syncrho antique cars and trucks make it a must-have skill.

[Vid]

Originally Posted by geeteeohguy

Driving non-syncrho antique cars and trucks make it a must-have skill.

Thanks for the video info, I’ll check it out. The new Rock Crusher ought to help if I have clutch issues with the new setup, LOL


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