[Chris-Austria]

Hi again,

since my last thread about the old faithful cam was closed, I have to start a new one.

It's now clear that I will swap the XE276HR for a Butler "OF" cam with LS at 114°.
My mechanic wants to keep the old valve springs and I need to know, if this will work and be safe. I have these springs at the moment:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/lun-73100-16

I won't go past 6000rpm.
If we need new springs, I will need a tool to change them with the engine in car and heads still in place. Not sure if this is easy to do, since we only have a tool to change springs with the heads off.

Thanks a lot for your opinion on that.
Chris

[78w72]

i cant confirm the springs are ok... but removing the springs while in the car is easy & can probably use the same tool you have if there is clearance, otherwise auto parts stores rent valve spring compressors that will fit with engine in the car.

all you need is one of the spark plug adapters to connect an air line to it that keep pressure on the valves so they dont drop out while changing the springs.

[Skip Fix]

A Moroso spring compressor makes it a breeze!
https://www.moroso.com/stud-mount-va...mpressor62370/

[Chris-Austria]

Good to know which tools will do the trick. I cannot find these tools where I live, so $ 133 translates to at least $ 200 until I have it with shipping and taxes and I will only use it once (probably).

The other tool we have will not work with heads on the engine.

Would be a lot cheaper and easier to keep the Lunati valve springs...
( 135 for springs, 133 for the tool plus 70 shipping plus 25% extra = $ 422 for new valve springs)

[Chris-Austria]

The problem is, we have absolutely no expert on such engines where I live and I don't want to go hundrets of miles to a shop in Germany.
I did that once... a engine builder (big shop) built my 428... it was expensive, needed much time and failed after 1,5 years. After that I descided to do everything by myself with the help of a friend who has a shop here (he mainly repairs domestic cars like VW, BMW and also Asian cars which are popular here).
The engine was build to 462cui with the components I listed. I got everything from Butler and trusted them with everything. Runs really good without issues, but my cam choice at the time was not the best.

Long story short... I don't even trust the bigger shops around here and I may just use the Edelbrock springs Butler sells with their kits. I'll ask them on their experience with these springs (I guess they check them if they build an engine).

On the other hand I have some opinions like what Jay S said... that the almost new Lunati springs will work as well which will safe me hours of work and hundrets of dollars.

[tom s]

You will want about 150 on the seats.Check to be sure.Tom

[Skip Fix]

I think someone copied that tool and it is cheaper. But the time fighting springs with one of the lever types it is worth it. It locks in place when compressed.

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Bar type take less room to operate. Especially needed when AC box and brake boosters are in the way.

Be easy enough to fabricate one if you have to. Think my first one started life as a lawn mower blade.

https://www.grainger.com/product/1UB...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Clay

[Chris-Austria]

The 73100 springs are what is installed at the moment. I also talked to Butler now and they say the 73100 will technically work, but he cannot say if there may be a problem with valve float. They recommend the Edelbrock 5845 and I guess I will buy these springs with a spring compressor tool (from Proform). Don't want to risk more than necessary.
I hope the tool works well with the heads on.... good news is we already have a 14mm plug for compressed air

I wish I had the options and opportunities you have (and the prices). But in the end we will achieve our goals. Glad you help me out and share your experience with me. Maybe one day I'll get everything sold and move to the US... gets more and more complicated and expensive over here...

[Steve C.]

The Edelbrock is a single coil spring !

Like Jay suggested add a shim under your existing springs and make the cam change.

I'm very VERY surprised your friend who has a shop there does not have a bench tester to check valve springs.

.

[Chris-Austria]

Sounds like I will have a lot of fun changing the valve springs
But I'll use compressed air and get the pistons on top just in case something happens.
Hope I can feel the difference when it's all done

["QUICK-SILVER"]

Wouldn't be very accurate but could have your own reference numbers and a way to keep up with and compare spring pressures.

Hang a fish scale on the end of the handle of a stud mount spring compressor.

Clay

[steve25]

Those springs are for a Aluminum aftermarket head with about a 1.800"to 1.850" installed height.

Are your heads aftermarket?

[Chris-Austria]

Originally Posted by steve25

Those springs are for a Aluminum aftermarket head with about a 1.800"to 1.850" installed height.

Are your heads aftermarket?

Sorry forgot to mention.. I have 72cc E-Heads (d-port).

[Steve C.]

We monitor the valve springs with a LSM brand on the head valvespring pressure checker, there are other brands but that is a good one.
Just be aware these types type of testers can vary considerably compared to a bench tester like a Rimac machine.

In all instances our LSM checker measures less with installed springs vs the springs tested prior to installation with the Rimac tester. It can be as much as 10-20 pounds less !
Therefore the on the head spring tester is used only for us to monitor the springs with use over time. I use a solid roller cam set up and we check the valve springs once a year when the lash is checked.


.

[wbnapier]

I used that pro-form valve spring compressor and didn't like it. The fork angle is not correct for a Pontiac head. It can work, but was dicey on some.

If I had it to do over, I would get a LSM one or weld something to the fork to make it flat to the spring.

Here are the LSM ones:

https://lsmproducts.com/collections/...ng-compressors

[Chris-Austria]

Originally Posted by wbnapier

I used that pro-form valve spring compressor and didn't like it. The fork angle is not correct for a Pontiac head. It can work, but was dicey on some.

If I had it to do over, I would get a LSM one or weld something to the fork to make it flat to the spring.

Here are the LSM ones:

https://lsmproducts.com/collections/...ng-compressors

I forgot to mention... I had to bend the fork... took me 30 seconds max If the fork is flat, it works really well. And it locks when the valve spring is compressed... which is pretty comfortable.

[Jay S]

Butler has the edelbrock springs listed incorrectly. They are single springs, they have very high spring rate to dampen harmonics because they are a single spring. The only thing good about them is they cheapen the spring and cam, or complete head kit up to make them look cheaper.

The 73100 are pretty weak. Only a 333lb spring rate. Doesn’t seem like that matches up with what you post earlier which were said to be in the engines??

[Chris-Austria]

Originally Posted by Jay S

Butler has the edelbrock springs listed incorrectly. They are single springs

I'm not too sure about that... Jegs also lists them as "spring type - double"
https://www.jegs.com/i/Edelbrock/350/5845/10002/-1

[Chris-Austria]

So I did it... it wasn't just a cam and spring change in the end... I did:

- changed the xe276hr to the OF cam from Butler
- replaced valve springs (with Edelbrock 5845.) using the Proform 66784 tool.. wasn't too hard with engine in the car
- replaced valve seals
- gasket matched the RPM intake
- build new wires and connectors for the EFI

Because of bad weather I couldn't do much testing, but it clearly feels stronger and it runs really nice...idling at 800rpm without any issue and no problem with vacuum.

If anyone with a 455 is wondering, if the old faithfull cam is too big... don't worry... I'm pretty sure a tighter LSA would also be streetable.. mine has 236/242/114.