[Brian Baker]

I can't believe that CWC is "the only game in town" in the USA when it comes to casting cam cores. I can believe that 5% of their total business is for flat tappet cam cores, but I would think the market demand is higher than their 5% of their total production. Who are the other businesses in play?

[Tom Vaught]

Chinese have over 300 companies making flat tappet camshafts.

Higher quality flat tappet camshafts are made in Turkey by a company called Estas.
They are in Sivas, Turkey. Been doing camshafts for about 50 years.

Estas Camshaft is also the world leader in producing after-market camshafts and currently exports to 24 nations located on nearly every continent, with the United States and Europe being the largest markets.

They supply to Ford, Cummins, Caterpillar, Fiat, Perkins, Peugot, Renault, and Volkswagen, among others, (which is why I am aware of them), Brian. There are very few USA MADE flat tappet camshaft makers in the USA. They have either gone out of business or went to China. TRW and Sealed Power going by the wayside.

Tom V.


.

[RH68]

According to their website they ship 200,000 cams per week. That’s a lot of cores!

Originally Posted by Brian Baker

I can't believe that CWC is "the only game in town" in the USA when it comes to casting cam cores. I can believe that 5% of their total business is for flat tappet cam cores, but I would think the market demand is higher than their 5% of their total production. Who are the other businesses in play?

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Tom Vaught

Chinese have over 300 companies making flat tappet camshafts.

Higher quality flat tappet camshafts are made in Turkey by a company called Estas.
They are in Sivas, Turkey. Been doing camshafts for about 50 years.

Estas Camshaft is also the world leader in producing after-market camshafts and currently exports to 24 nations located on nearly every continent, with the United States and Europe being the largest markets.

They supply to Ford, Cummins, Caterpillar, Fiat, Perkins, Peugot, Renault, and Volkswagen, among others, (which is why I am aware of them), Brian. There are very few USA MADE flat tappet camshaft makers in the USA. They have either gone out of business or went to China. TRW and Sealed Power going by the wayside.

Tom V.


.

As Tom said, there are very few cast cam cores made in the USA. This is not a new problem, but with so little being produced here, and problems getting cores from foreign sources, you can see where we are now. I remember having several conversations with Harold Brookshire about cam cores, sources and availability 30 years ago. It was a problem then. He was always concerned, even being a large producer at the time of aftermarket cams. A large aftermarket camshaft company is still a tiny fraction of the total market when the OE's and industrial engines are factored in. He was always concerned about being "at the mercy" of the core manufacturers for his business to survive. He made several attempts to purchase foundries that could make cores just for the aftermarket. It never happened for a variety of reasons and he has passed as well.
Foundry work, being a "dirty business", is not the type of industry the USA has any interest in. The EPA and every other road block imaginable will be set-up to keep any "new" production capability of cam cores from ever happening here. China will likely be the only option in the future, with India and some other countries not concerned with the environment and not having restrictions joining in. BTW, my Jeep 4.0L engine has a cylinder head and camshaft made in India. Actually, very high quality and they have had no issues with them. It's all about quality control, materials and process. Where the part is actually made is not the issue IMO. Of course, I would like to see all the cores made in the USA but that's probably not realistic.

[Tom Vaught]

Clay Smith company was mentioned in this topic.
I did a quick look-up on the current business.
Looks like it might be selling a lot more historical stuff: Hats, logos, T-Shirts vs the camshaft stuff.
Queestion on the camshaft that was purchased from them, what were the specs on the camshaft as Clay Smith had a long history of roller cams with fast opening rates but low valve lift specs.

Tom V.

[Gary H]

I ordered a cam from Camcraft today. They have good selection of different flat tappet grinds and, more importantly, have some cores in stock for a Pontiac

[Ram Air IV Jack]

Originally Posted by mgarblik

As Tom said, there are very few cast cam cores made in the USA. This is not a new problem, but with so little being produced here, and problems getting cores from foreign sources, you can see where we are now. I remember having several conversations with Harold Brookshire about cam cores, sources and availability 30 years ago. It was a problem then. He was always concerned, even being a large producer at the time of aftermarket cams. A large aftermarket camshaft company is still a tiny fraction of the total market when the OE's and industrial engines are factored in. He was always concerned about being "at the mercy" of the core manufacturers for his business to survive. He made several attempts to purchase foundries that could make cores just for the aftermarket. It never happened for a variety of reasons and he has passed as well.
Foundry work, being a "dirty business", is not the type of industry the USA has any interest in. The EPA and every other road block imaginable will be set-up to keep any "new" production capability of cam cores from ever happening here. China will likely be the only option in the future, with India and some other countries not concerned with the environment and not having restrictions joining in. BTW, my Jeep 4.0L engine has a cylinder head and camshaft made in India. Actually, very high quality and they have had no issues with them. It's all about quality control, materials and process. Where the part is actually made is not the issue IMO. Of course, I would like to see all the cores made in the USA but that's probably not realistic.

I have never been wild about parts made overseas. I thought Crane was the last USA cam manufacture and when they went out of business we knew most would be made in China. Chinese metals are mostly recycled junk. Flat tappet cam failures reported in the last several years have been blamed on the reduced zinc in modern oils. However, there are many metallurgists claiming the Chinese cams are made with softer metals and that is the main reason for the failures. I think it is the combination of both but it seems overseas parts are the only source for the time being.

[steve25]

Here’s a question!
Will Comp or whoever Cam company regrind a customers stock used core if it’s not too badly worn?

I mean since most anyone will want more then the stock .406” lift the regrind will make the base circle smaller anyway!

[Steve C.]

Note my post #20 related

[Gary H]

Originally Posted by steve25

Here’s a question!
Will Comp or whoever Cam company regrind a customers stock used core if it’s not too badly worn?

I mean since most anyone will want more then the stock .406” lift the regrind will make the base circle smaller anyway!

I guess it can be done but I hope we can get this cam core supply situation solved before it comes to that. I'd be more comfortable having a roller cam reground than a cast core.

[mgarblik]

Originally Posted by Gary H

I guess it can be done but I hope we can get this cam core supply situation solved before it comes to that. I'd be more comfortable having a roller cam reground than a cast core.

The regrind question comes down to knowing someone at the cam company in many cases. They would all rather sell you a new cam. But if cores are not available, that may alter their thinking. Crower and Bullet/Ulradyne will attempt to regrind anything I send them. It may be worth considering having a DLC coating or similar applied to a radical regrind as the hardness will likely be effected.

[tom s]

Isky Will regains one for you,they redid a factory 4 cyc cam for me.Tom

[dataway]

How about Melling, I think they own some of their own foundries.

[tom s]

Regrind

[Tom Vaught]

Originally Posted by dataway

How about Melling, I think they own some of their own foundries.

They DO OWN and Operate several companies and have since the company was formed in 1946. You would be surprised at the lists of different parts that they design, cast, fabricate, or machine for the automotive and industrial community. The Foundry side is just one part of their capabilities.

They have locations in several parts of the world where they do given design/engineering/ and production.

Looking at their USA catalog you would assume they are a "shoe-string" outfit. Far from it. Europe, Mexico, the USA, are just a few of their locations.

Tom V.

[John Milner]

I ordered a custom grind hydraulic flat tappet camshaft from Isky today. Cost was $190 plus shipping and I should have the cam in 2 weeks. I asked if they are having or expecting a shortage on their cam cores. He said that they have not had trouble and he is not expecting any trouble receiving flat tappet cam cores for GM, Mopar and Ford products. I'm not sure where they source their cores from but that is just what I was told. He did indicate that it was tough to get good flat tappet lifters right now.

[1968GTO421]

John,
Most Isky cams are single pattern while most of us have been using dual pattern cams in our Pontiacs. Is your custom grind single or dual pattern? Did Isky give you that option, also on lobe separation, etc? Appreciate it much.

(I used many Isky cams in the '60's, single pattern, ignorant if that was best for my engine or not. Nonetheless my memory of them is thay were great performing cams!)

[John Milner]

Originally Posted by 1968GTO421

John,
Most Isky cams are single pattern while most of us have been using dual pattern cams in our Pontiacs. Is your custom grind single or dual pattern? Did Isky give you that option, also on lobe separation, etc? Appreciate it much.

(I used many Isky cams in the '60's, single pattern, ignorant if that was best for my engine or not. Nonetheless my memory of them is thay were great performing cams!)

This one is a dual pattern. It’s a camshaft that Ace at pacific performance used to sell. I gave them the specs and they had the lobe numbers on file from when they ground them for pacific performance. I’ve had good luck with these cams so far.

[1968GTO421]

Originally Posted by John Milner

This one is a dual pattern. It’s a camshaft that Ace at pacific performance used to sell. I gave them the specs and they had the lobe numbers on file from when they ground them for pacific performance. I’ve had good luck with these cams so far.

Thanks, John. It's an interesting cam for sure. At firsr I saw 280* duration, 230* duration at .050 and looked a tad like a 280 Mega cam. But look closer and it's a way different cam. Thanks for the info and the spec sheet.